Why don't we remove them during cleaning? With my cap and ball revolvers I remove the the nipples and clean them why not do the same on my rifle? I guess I just don't understand the difference.
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touch hole liners
- Thread starter RockRash
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That's my thought and I've always done it this way. However after reading here people don't seem to reccomend removing them.
The liner in my flinters can't be removed for cleaning, it must be drilled out to be replaced. Somehow, I don't see this as a problem.
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Obviously with guns designed to not remove it you won't, my fusil has a hole drilled straight into the bore. But ones that are designed to screw in and out the idea is to not have them seize.
I bought a second hand pedersoli trade gun, it'd only fired a few shots but the liner had never been taken out and cleaned and when I got it she wasn't budging!
Then one must use an anti-seize compound, correct? The older guns where the touch hole was drilled into the barrel, were worn out over a relatively short period of time. That is why liners became the solution.
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I use anti-seize on both flint touch hole liners and percussion drums. When cleaning I periodically check them by giving a slight turn to see if they are still able to be moved. If they feel like they may be getting too hard to turn I remove them and clean and reapply anti-seize. My oldest guns are over 40 years old and have replaced the liner or drum only a few times but like to be able to if needed. I always used 1/4-28 threaded parts so I could replace with larger threaded ones if the threads get worn but never needed to.
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IMO, unless one shoots very high volumes(+1000 shots), it’s unlikely that stainless, or even modern steel non-liner barrels will wear out with proper vent-hole picking and cleaning procedures. There is a fundamental difference between the design/intent of a percussion nipple and a vent hole liner used in the flintlock. Percussion nipples were designed to be “effectively” replaced with a securely-operable wrench. In addition to cleaning the excessive fouling with the revolver, a primary reason for easy nipple removal was that percussion nipples were made of softer iron based metals of the day and easily deformed/mushroomed, thus effecting placement of the cap. They were often replaced. Even the modern percussion revolvers and rifles with their superior metals should NEVER be dry fired for this reason….But, I have seen countless percussion firearms over the years with mushroomed nipples. The removable percussion nipple also aided cleaning of the more “fouling-prone” flash channels found in some of the percussion rifle designs.
The flintlocks flash channel is a shorter and more direct design, and, with proper cleaning procedures, be effectively cleaned without removal. The shallow screw slots and Allen wrench provisions in the flintlock flash liners have the potential to do more harm then good. These provisions for removal can compromise the strength and performance of the liner with incessant/frequent removal. The major failures of liners over the years that I have observed is not only faster flash hole erosion, but the eventual fracture of the reduced thickness of steel at the screw slot which crosses the flash hole. The stresses of removal/replacement doesn’t help. Additionally, if the screw slot is vertically oriented to the pan, it can direct priming powder and/or fouling down into the lock-works with various lock designs. Over the years I have converted most of my rifles to the White Lightning design liners, and have experienced high reliability with superb performance. Just some of my experiences.
The flintlocks flash channel is a shorter and more direct design, and, with proper cleaning procedures, be effectively cleaned without removal. The shallow screw slots and Allen wrench provisions in the flintlock flash liners have the potential to do more harm then good. These provisions for removal can compromise the strength and performance of the liner with incessant/frequent removal. The major failures of liners over the years that I have observed is not only faster flash hole erosion, but the eventual fracture of the reduced thickness of steel at the screw slot which crosses the flash hole. The stresses of removal/replacement doesn’t help. Additionally, if the screw slot is vertically oriented to the pan, it can direct priming powder and/or fouling down into the lock-works with various lock designs. Over the years I have converted most of my rifles to the White Lightning design liners, and have experienced high reliability with superb performance. Just some of my experiences.
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I don't worry too much about how others do things. I always remove the liners every time I clean my flint guns but then I also always remove the barrels each cleaning and a lot of guys don't do that. To each their own.
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Constantly removing/replacing a TH liner is just asking for trouble. Worn threads, constantly reindexing. It just not necessary.
Comfortably_Numb
The Evil Mike Brooks
I never put slotted vent liners in a gun because I don't want anybody taking them out unless they are worn out. Taking those out would be just like removing your breech plug every time you clean your barrel.
nchawkeye
58 Cal.
Both my flintlock liners are non removable, one I have owned since 1977, the other I built in the late '80s...When I clean, I plug the touchhole with a tooth pick and fill with water, pour out the water and swab the barrel while holding the gun parallel to the ground with the touchhole facing down, this flushes out the liner...I do this twice, dry and oil, no need to remove the liner...
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Do you remove the breech plug too? Of course not! The touch hole is just a modified hole in the barrel to improve ignition. My first rifle was made in the early 70s, and the stainless steel liner has never been removed. It still shoots well today. Obviously, it still must be cleaned with lots of hot water and or cleaning solution, dried, and lubricated with gun oil.
Larry
hanshi
Cannon
I don't remove my liners for routine cleaning. I only remove them when It's necessary for doing maintenance where the liner needs removing. I've got rifles where the liners can't be easily removed so they are there to stay.
I start with “what did they do in the period?” No offense intended, but I don’t start with “This is what I do with a percussion revolver and I want to do the same sort of thing with my flintlock.”
Here’s what period practices were here:
1) Liners were rare to extremely rare, so they could not be removed, because they usually didn’t exist.
2) When simple touchholes burned out, sometimes the barrel was “set back”, essentially cutting the breech end up to an inch to remove the eroded area of the powder chamber, and the barrel was re-breeched and a new touchhole drilled. This required moving the underlugs, cutting some off the forestock, and moving the nosecap back or making a new one. Alternatively the touchhole was drilled to about 3/16” and threaded and a bolt inserted and filed flush. Then a new simple touchhole was drilled in the so-called “liner”. This was referred to as “bushing” or “re-bushing” the touchhole.
Gus?
Here’s what period practices were here:
1) Liners were rare to extremely rare, so they could not be removed, because they usually didn’t exist.
2) When simple touchholes burned out, sometimes the barrel was “set back”, essentially cutting the breech end up to an inch to remove the eroded area of the powder chamber, and the barrel was re-breeched and a new touchhole drilled. This required moving the underlugs, cutting some off the forestock, and moving the nosecap back or making a new one. Alternatively the touchhole was drilled to about 3/16” and threaded and a bolt inserted and filed flush. Then a new simple touchhole was drilled in the so-called “liner”. This was referred to as “bushing” or “re-bushing” the touchhole.
Gus?
TDM
Cannon
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With factory flint rifles having removable vent liners it’s easy to mistakenly start the habit of removing them for cleaning when one transitions from percussion to flint. I made the mistake. Same with removing pinned barrels for cleaning, don’t do it. But I started out doing that too. You might have to take it as a leap of faith, but try to leave the liner in place.
Mike in FL
50 Cal.
I have never removed a liner in any of the counters I have owned. But I do keep them clean. No problems after all these years.
Greenjoytj
54 Cal.
Removed the OME vent hole liner from my GPR and replaced it with a SS version from RMC.
I remove the liner at every cleaning because it really helps to have an 6mm hole to flush water through, or dribble powder through in case I’ve dry balled the loading again.
I remove water from the barrel threads with 99% alcohol and dry them with Q-Tips.
Both the barrel threads and liner threads get treated with anti-seize compound then reinstalled.
I’ve never had a problem removing the liner, thank you RMC for being smart to add an Allen hex hole to the liner the hex wrench make it easy to unscrew.
The hex wrench hole acts like a coned flash hole to improve ignition reliability.
If the vent should get stuck I have Kroil penetrating oil to soften what’s binding it so the hex wrench can loosen and remove the liner.
I remove the liner at every cleaning because it really helps to have an 6mm hole to flush water through, or dribble powder through in case I’ve dry balled the loading again.
I remove water from the barrel threads with 99% alcohol and dry them with Q-Tips.
Both the barrel threads and liner threads get treated with anti-seize compound then reinstalled.
I’ve never had a problem removing the liner, thank you RMC for being smart to add an Allen hex hole to the liner the hex wrench make it easy to unscrew.
The hex wrench hole acts like a coned flash hole to improve ignition reliability.
If the vent should get stuck I have Kroil penetrating oil to soften what’s binding it so the hex wrench can loosen and remove the liner.
