touchhole liners

[FPDoc]

Does anyone know how the original TH repair liners were secured in place?

 

[cowpoke1955]

I have a Pedersoli .45 Blue Ridge flinter, two .54 GPR (cap and flint) and even a .54 T/C Hawken cap. All of them are PC and HC for 1980-1990 :rotf: . I didn't spend thousands of dollars to buy a modern kit, made of modern materials to be put together by someone to look old. How many of these kits have steel pins, springs, furniture, locks, screws and barrels :hmm: . I'm not aware of GM or Rice making iron barrels. So, if you want to get picky, HC and PC is :bull: . If the rifle you have makes you happy, fine. I don't care if you spend $300 or $3,000. As long as you get that ball or conical, from point A to point B using a traditional "STYLE" firearm. Make love, not war :v .

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Cooner--you must have missed the post where, for no apparent reason, the poster referred to folks who care about historical accuracy as Nazis and then used the B.S. smiley to underline his disdain for these people. His disrespectful remarks and attitude were uncalled for and irrelevant to this thread. His PC envy was showing as was his desire to sneer at those take the time to study the history of the guns so many of us care about and the times in which they were used. He also thinks that folks who enact historical events are "reactors" which implies that they are powered by nuclear energy--unlikely I would think--so perhaps his opinions of these folks aren't to be taken seriously anyway. Hope this explanation has been helpful. :hatsoff:

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I have a Pedersoli .45 Blue Ridge flinter, two .54 GPR (cap and flint) and even a .54 T/C Hawken cap. All of them are PC and HC for 1980-1990 :rotf: . I didn't spend thousands of dollars to buy a modern kit, made of modern materials to be put together by someone to look old. How many of these kits have steel pins, springs, furniture, locks, screws and barrels :hmm: . I'm not aware of GM or Rice making iron barrels. So, if you want to get picky, HC and PC is :bull: . If the rifle you have makes you happy, fine. I don't care if you spend $300 or $3,000. As long as you get that ball or conical, from point A to point B using a traditional "STYLE" firearm. Make love, not war :v .

Oh boy! Here we go again! :nono: If you miss your targets the way you have missed the point of this discussion, you must waste an awful lot of ammunition. :blah:

 

[roundball]

Does anyone know how long removeable touchhole liners have been used, or when they were first used? Just curious.
Thanks.

Sorry SJoe...sometimes you just have to be patient :rotf:

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Does anyone know how long removeable touchhole liners have been used, or when they were first used? Just curious.
Thanks.

Sorry SJoe...sometimes you just have to be patient :rotf:

The original question was addressed in earlier posts. Paul made a joking remark in passing and we were off and running....

 

Cooner--you must have missed the post where, for no apparent reason, the poster referred to folks who care about historical accuracy as Nazis and then used the B.S. smiley to underline his disdain for these people. His disrespectful remarks and attitude were uncalled for and irrelevant to this thread. His PC envy was showing as was his desire to sneer at those take the time to study the history of the guns so many of us care about and the times in which they were used. He also thinks that folks who enact historical events are "reactors" which implies that they are powered by nuclear energy--unlikely I would think--so perhaps his opinions of these folks aren't to be taken seriously anyway. Hope this explanation has been helpful. :hatsoff:

Oh yes, the anti HC/PC comments. Yep, I saw them but don't read them. I just skip over that foolishness. Ignore it.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Russ T Frizzen, Cooner 54, and others:

I am so very sorry I used such poor judgment to make a joke out of this question. I did not mean to stir up a hornet's nest.

Many years ago, when rendezvousing was the new thing, 2 friends of mine attended a NOW popular event in S.Illinois. They planned to camp over a long weekend, in period dress, and camp gear. They actually had a hand made birchbark Canoe, and were going to put a tarp over it for their shelter, at night. They were warned about some of the Self-Appointed-Experts-on all-things, who apparently don't like newcomers, and gave them a hard time, applying different rules of what is acceptable H/C than was applied to themselves and friends.

The two guys took a library of resource material to back up everything they carried, wore, or lived in, and cooked with.

Well, sure enough, a couple of the guys jumped my two friends, and tried to drive them out of the primitive camp, claiming they were not correct in one thing after another. Their mistake was that they waited too long, giving my friends time to go around, meet other people, look at their gear, and to get known by those " Old " folks. George simply went to his jeep and began coming back with source material to challenge them one thing after another. A crowd gathered, as one rarely sees libraries at these sorts of events, and the guys were being entertained watching these two know-it-alls have their ears pinned back by these new friends.

I was recalling that story when I read this post asking about when " removable " liners came into being, as opposed to just " liners". That is the genesis of my comment, and poor attempt at humor.

I am NOT making fun of Cooner54, or anyone who has spent the time to get it right. I would be shooting myself in my own foot if I did. Part of being a Traditional rifle shooter is learning what was used in the period, and often, how to make the gear yourself.

There is a limit, of course, to how far we should take P/C, and we can rationally discuss such matters. I think there is plenty of leeway to allow locks with coil springs inside, steel barrels where iron was used, modern finishes and stains where only home made aqua fortis was available , etc. Even a LH rifle or fowler can be excused By all but the most fanatical.

The fact that fanatics( P/C Nazis is a pretty good description of their autocratic behavior) exist, or that they are permitted to give folks a hard time, or to apply " rules " based on who you are, is why making jokes about them is so easy.

"Evil triumphs only when good people stand by and do nothing."

If some of the more rational and fair Historical Correct folk step up and stop the abuses, when they happen, everyone benefits. We get new blood in our shrinking ranks; the new folks get to learn from their errors from older guys who have been there, and done that, and our history is preserved. As we get older, it gets very tempting to just withdraw, go off by ourselves, and refuse to talk to " the idiots". I think we can allow ourselves to draw a line, however, between giving advice when asked, teaching, and having to argue with them, when they obviously don't know what they are talking about. Having a battle of wits with a half-wit is taking unfair advantage.

 

[Dphar]

Does anyone know how long removeable touchhole liners have been used, or when they were first used? Just curious.

Thanks.

Vent liners have been around for a LONG time. "Bushing" vents is a very old process and was surely done on guns in America for as long as there have been gunsmiths here.
A removable vent is viable in theory but a bad idea in practice. I know they were available in the late 1960s.

Dan

We know about bushed touch holes in the 18th c. We are questioning the touch hole liners that have a screw slot in them previous to the 1960's. I don't think any original guns had the screw in and screw out type.

I stated "I know they were available in the late 1960s" I beleive this addressed the question.
I put one in a rifle in 1968, does this help any? Bought it from DGW.
Sorry if I confused you with too much information.

Dan

 

[Dphar]

Boy, oh, boy! I can see the hair splitting to come now, with the H/C folks. You have a replica of an 18th century flintlock, but are using a screw in vent liner? OUT YOU GO! You can't play our games with us! :youcrazy: :surrender: :hatsoff:

My concern with removable liners is that they are more likely to gas cut the threads than a properly done permanent installation. BTDT. Took a few years but it happened. So it could be a safety issue.
Anyone griping about their historical correctness would be looking a little too close IMO.

Dan

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Russ T Frizzen, Cooner 54, and others:

I am so very sorry I used such poor judgment to make a joke out of this question. I did not mean to stir up a hornet's nest.

Many years ago, when rendezvousing was the new thing, 2 friends of mine attended a NOW popular event in S.Illinois. They planned to camp over a long weekend, in period dress, and camp gear. They actually had a hand made birchbark Canoe, and were going to put a tarp over it for their shelter, at night. They were warned about some of the Self-Appointed-Experts-on all-things, who apparently don't like newcomers, and gave them a hard time, applying different rules of what is acceptable H/C than was applied to themselves and friends.

The two guys took a library of resource material to back up everything they carried, wore, or lived in, and cooked with.

Well, sure enough, a couple of the guys jumped my two friends, and tried to drive them out of the primitive camp, claiming they were not correct in one thing after another. Their mistake was that they waited too long, giving my friends time to go around, meet other people, look at their gear, and to get known by those " Old " folks. George simply went to his jeep and began coming back with source material to challenge them one thing after another. A crowd gathered, as one rarely sees libraries at these sorts of events, and the guys were being entertained watching these two know-it-alls have their ears pinned back by these new friends.

I was recalling that story when I read this post asking about when " removable " liners came into being, as opposed to just " liners". That is the genesis of my comment, and poor attempt at humor.

I am NOT making fun of Cooner54, or anyone who has spent the time to get it right. I would be shooting myself in my own foot if I did. Part of being a Traditional rifle shooter is learning what was used in the period, and often, how to make the gear yourself.

There is a limit, of course, to how far we should take P/C, and we can rationally discuss such matters. I think there is plenty of leeway to allow locks with coil springs inside, steel barrels where iron was used, modern finishes and stains where only home made aqua fortis was available , etc. Even a LH rifle or fowler can be excused By all but the most fanatical.

The fact that fanatics( P/C Nazis is a pretty good description of their autocratic behavior) exist, or that they are permitted to give folks a hard time, or to apply " rules " based on who you are, is why making jokes about them is so easy.

"Evil triumphs only when good people stand by and do nothing."

If some of the more rational and fair Historical Correct folk step up and stop the abuses, when they happen, everyone benefits. We get new blood in our shrinking ranks; the new folks get to learn from their errors from older guys who have been there, and done that, and our history is preserved. As we get older, it gets very tempting to just withdraw, go off by ourselves, and refuse to talk to " the idiots". I think we can allow ourselves to draw a line, however, between giving advice when asked, teaching, and having to argue with them, when they obviously don't know what they are talking about. Having a battle of wits with a half-wit is taking unfair advantage.

Well said Paul. You've no reason to apologize. Your remark was taken in the spirit in which it was meant. 'Twas the fellow calling people Nazis I was addressing.

 

Does anyone know how long removeable touchhole liners have been used, or when they were first used? Just curious.

Thanks.

This sounds like a question of historical record to me. In the process of trying to answer this honest question in a honest and direct way I am now considered a Nazi? :rotf: That word Nazi gets thrown around pretty easily and frivolently. In my humble opinion, of course.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Cooner--the fella that introduced the Nazi word to the discussioin lists his occupation as "bum". Seems appropriate to me. 'Nuff said. :rotf:

 

Cooner--the fella that introduced the Nazi word to the discussioin lists his occupation as "bum". Seems appropriate to me. 'Nuff said. :rotf:

Now I'm startin' ta feel sorry for 'im.

 

[Runner]

Hey! Just what is wrong with being a bum! :grin:

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Well, I come from a generation where calling a man a Nazi was not taken lightly. I suppose today people have largely forgotten just what the Nazis represented. And coming onto a traditional muzzleloading forum and insulting those who care about tradition and calling historical accuracy B.S. is not the wisest thing that this poster could have done. I feel sorry for him, too. Probably my reasons are different though....

 

[tg]

"PC envy"

Now that's funny, I don't care what anybody says.

Nice thread guys I have been wathcing it and as near as I can tell there was no mention of PC/HC untill someone used the terms in a slam, the gentle man asked about the history of REMOVABLE liners and got good honest answers and then the Troglodites came forth with a bunch of bashing aimed at either putting down the folks who enjoy history, or maybe attempting to justify the use of some particular type of gun, which was not even an issue here, it is hard to tell what set them off from reading the post before theirs. I hope the original poster got the gist of the background about the removable liners many now use and how the original type were done, if not he can give me a PM and I will explain it without the aid of a bunch of needless banter from those who do not understand the question and its relevance with the history of guns. I suspect that by now the Trogs have trolled their way back to the shallow end of the pool to await their next chance to do some PS/HC bashing...they even had to mentioned the terms first themselves this time I guess that is one way to start a fight, Carry on and have fun ....hey, how about a name for these guys...Wannabe Police?

 

Gosh, I thought I asked a pretty straightforward question. I do appreciate the straightforward answers. I know a bit more about flintlocks than I did before.

As to the responses concerning PC/HC, I had none of that in mind. As I said, "just curious."
:surrender:

 

[tg]

"As to the responses concerning PC/HC, I had none of that in mind. As I said, "just curious.""

Hope you found the info you needed about liners that could be remove and put back in,....a contemporary concept, I did not see any real PC pushing here just a comparison for the sake of the question which involes a time line,, I think you will find that when ever anyone even mentions something about something from the past they become the dreaded PC Nazi and are set upon by the Flying monkeys from the wizard of OZ, good shooting to ya and be carefull not to mention anything of a historical nature...

 

Thanks, tg. Will keep that in mind.