Tough day at the range, some questions

[MikeC]

Just my opinion but loose the 777 and go with BP. It cleans just as easy and is much more reliable and consistent.

Loose the musket caps and go with #11 caps.

I spit patch 99% of the time and typically don't swab the bore until I shoot about 5 to 6 rounds with no loose of accuracy or ease of loading.

As stated above I swab with a patch soaked in alcohol.

With regard to 777 I heard it leaves a heavy crud ring in the barrel down near the breech.

 

[t-buck]

when cleaning for storage or after a shooting session
clean with the soapy water, use the dry patches as you stated but don't set aside to dry and use hot water if possible /// use the alcohol after the dry patches to take out any left over moisture then use the rust preventive
if does not take long for rust to start forming
when you take her out for the next shooting session run an alcohol patch down the barrel to remove the oil that may be in it then pop a couple caps and you should be good to go
and always keep a nipple pick handy never know when you will need one aka safety pin
mule / t-buck

 

[newarcher]

If I were to go with regular BP, what brand should I use and what load level for hunting deer?

I ordered a cleaning kit last night with a boar brush for the .50 so I should be able to take care of the ring, if any. I'd like to use the rest of this powder so as to not be wasteful.

Thanks,
New

 

[newarcher]

Thank you, I will use that exact procedure.


New

 

[Rifleman1776]

Too much going on here to give a good response without seeing the rifle. What is the twist? Is that rifle designed to use slugs or sabots?
Fancy cleaning supplies are not necessary. You won't hurt anything with a bronze brush. My procedure is to swab between every shot using baby blanket flannel patches and spit. Standard nipples. The caps won't go bad with age. I am using caps from my ml gun shop inventory. I closed the shop in 1976. Do use bp from now on. Put the T7 on the shelf. Don't worry about waste. We all accumulate 'stuff' from experimentation over the years. Part of the shooting game. Good luck.

 

[MikeC]

If I were to go with regular BP, what brand should I use and what load level for hunting deer?

I ordered a cleaning kit last night with a boar brush for the .50 so I should be able to take care of the ring, if any. I'd like to use the rest of this powder so as to not be wasteful.

Thanks,
New

Goex is just fine and it's easy to find. Either 2F or 3F works fine in a .50 caliber but I would go with 3F it burns a bit cleaner and hotter. Start with 70 grains and work up to 100 and see what groups best. As stated above you don't need a fancy cleaning kit. I never use a brush don't need it with PRB's. All I use is luke warm tap water, hot water causes flash rusting in the barrel and really doesn't help much more. Also as stated I would stop using the 777 as soon as you can get some BP. As for waste it makes a great fertilizer so save it for your garden or house plants or just scatter it over the grass.

 

[jethro224]

Problem 1: I am using a 50 caliber TC round ball along with a TC titch patch pre-soaked in boar butter (.018 thickness). The last time I shot it, it took some effort but I was able to start the ball and load/shoot. This time, I couldn't force that ball into the barrel with the patch to save my life and I am a big strong dude. The ball was actually deforming instead of loading. My workaround was to load and shoot without the patch. The ball would sometimes stop at the barrel and take a very small tap to load and sometimes would fall in all on it's own. [question: why would it load last time and not this time, nothing has changed--I am using the same equipment. Perhaps use a thinner patch or do I even need one?]

That is strange. The few things I can think of that might cause it are
1) As someone mentioned, it could be that you didn't clean and lube it right last time.
2) As someone else mentioned, you may have assorted size balls in the same box. Could be poor quality control from the factory. Could be a couple boxes got spilled and mixed up at the store. Could be one of your buddies messin' with ya snuck some oversized balls in there.
3) You might have had 2 patches stuck together.

Since you shot the rifle with no patches you now will need to clean the lead fouling out of the rifling. The patch is there to form a gas seal and engage the rifling. It also keeps the lead from fouling the bore. Your rifle can be fired with no patch but it will work much better with a proper fitting patch/ball combination.
If you have a micrometer or caliper measure your balls and find out what size(s) you really do have. I'd probably get a box of .490 balls and try them with .018 and .015 patches for a start.

Problem 2: I switched to a TC hot shot nipple system that uses musket caps (presumably to achieve more consistent ignition). Today, I only got three shots out of the gun before it started refusing to fire--again it didn't happen last time like this. I tried several caps in a row to see if I could burn it out. Finally I had to remove the nipple system, clean it out the best I could, and then prime the pan a little to get it to shoot.

I'd switch back to the #11 caps because they will work fine, they are easier to find, and they are cheaper.
You have gotten some good advice here already but there are a couple of things I would add.
1) Your T/C has a "patent breech" where there is a smaller diameter chamber at the bottom of the bore. You MUST get that chamber clean and dry when cleaning the gun. Then you must get any oil out of that chamber before you shoot the gun again. Also be sure to remove the nipple and clean out the flame channel with a pipe cleaner. And don't forget to clean the nipple itself.
My guess is that you oiled the bore good and then stood it barrel-up in your gun cabinet so some oil settled in the breech and fouled it.
2) A percussion gun doesn't have a "pan". I assume you mean you put a little powder under the nipple???

At the range I run a slightly damp spit-patch or 2 followed by a dry patch only when it starts to get hard to load easily.

 

[Swtodd]

The larger diameter of the musket caps might not fit the inside diameter of your hammer. Are the musket caps popping? Just something to check. I agree with others that musket caps are not needed with 3seven or real black.

steve

 

[newarcher]

But will the musket caps hurt anything? I already have the caps and nipple is why I ask.

New

 

[jethro224]

No they won't hurt anything. Unless the hammer doesn't fit and they won't fire reliably. Use 'em up. I'd still switch back when they are gone tho.

 

[newarcher]

Jethro,

Thanks for the great and detailed post.

The last time I cleaned it I really gave it a good scrubbing and the part of the bore where I can see looks exactly the same as when I got the gun so I don't think it was a lack of cleaning.

One thing I noticed when using the round ball without patches is that some of the balls would stop at the muzzle and some would drop on down. I think I might have had a bad batch of lead balls from TC. They were clearly some of varying sizes. No one else had access to the balls so it couldn't have been buddies messing with me (although that would have been funny).

I had the range master come over and he double checked me that it was only one patch.

I ordered some thinner patches to use with the balls and I will see how they work when they get here.

On the bore/breech, I cleaned it last time and I just put a patch down it with a couple drops of weapon shield/clp on it. Then I cleaned it out with a dry patch to make sure it wasn't overly oiled so it coudln't have had much of any oil in it to drip down.

After researching it, I think that the problem might have been that the flame channel was clogged and might have been the culprit. Right, I took the nipple out and put some powder under it, I thought that was called the pan.

I'm kind of worried that I might have messed up the barrel by using too hot of water or letting it air dry. I oiled it up and I didn't notice any rust stains on the oiled patch, it came out clean.

New

 

[jethro224]

Yeah, I think you got a bad batch of balls. T/C ball boxes that I have seen don't say if they are .490 or .495 but either of those sizes should not hang up in the bore with no patch at all. They should drop right in a .50 bore rifle.
It's possible you might even have some .530 balls in there. They would be tight even with no patch in a .50 caliber rifle but you might be able to ram them down with some effort. I've never tried that. :idunno:

You do need to make sure you clean the "patent breech" tho. I use a .36 brush with a patch over it to get down in there.

The part on a T/C barrel where the nipple screws in is called a "snail". Some other percussion guns, CVA for instance, use a "drum".
The flame channel is the small hole that leads from the nipple to the chamber.
A "pan" is part of a flintlock where the priming powder is placed.

 

[FRJ]

I'd like to share a few things I have found thru hard knocks and hopefully you won't have to make the same mistakes.1. Only clean with cold water, a little dishwashing soap initially if you want but always finish up with clear water. DONT use hot water you will always end up with flash rust with it. Always swab the barrel until the patches come out as clean as they went in and are dry.DONT let the barrel air dry it will rust.Oil in a ML barrel is a bad idea as it will foul the barrel when its shot and is very hard to clean up. Instead a light coating of olive oil or just well dried and left bare. Check it regularly to make sure there is no rusting.Absolutely get rid of any synthetic powder and only use Holy Black Powder. Goex is fine and can be purchased most anywhere with a little looking. Or buy it in five or ten pound lots on the internet.Get a vernier caliper and check all your balls if they are not consistant use them to melt down for new ones or fishing weights.Get Hornady balls if you just want to buy them.They are very consistant.Get rid of the big primers and go back to the #11's. Have a good time. Frank