traditionalist - Are we Loosing the Battle

[Old Hawkeye]

Nothing less than the truth, oldwood. These days you have to be brave to say it, and not only here in UK, but also, it would seem, in the 'home of the brave and the land of the free'.

We'll keep the faith - people like you and me - but when we're gone? What then?

When you & oldwood, & me for that matter, are gone the world will continue like it always has & be run by the next generation. In all likelihood, they will probably do a better job of it than we have. Kids today are much more politically & socially savvy than my generation was (I'm 70) & I just don't understand the negative attitude displayed by so many on this forum, but rather see many signs of it being a better world when my son's generation assumes leadership. Relax & enjoy the time you have.

 

[Onojutta]

Hunting and fishing and the ways of the outdoors were lost back in the 80s and 90s when people failed to pass that stuff on to their kids.

Baby boomers who grew up in they heyday of the 60s and 70s but let your kids play video games when you should have had them out in the woods you know what I mean.

If the declining trend in hunting and fishing license sales continues for another decade or two, imagine what that future looks like,

Traditionalists? I am in my 40s and am BY FAR one of the youngest people I know who has any interest whatsoever in blackpowder. Just look around at the next shoot or look at the average age of many on here.

Most of my friends and family and people I hunt with have no comprehension why someone would limit themselves to a primitive hunting rifle when magnum scoped rifles with stainless barrels and synthetic stocks are available. Despite my best efforts to influence these folks, most of them think my BP is just plain weird.

We're finished in another decade. The cottage industry will dry up and there will be no one to advocate for us when the game commissions look to do away with traditional BP seasons in favor of extending the modern seasons and just trying to do whatever they can to sell a license to someone who would otherwise spend his free time playing on a smartphone.

Hate to be bleak, but that's just how I see it. I am trying to enjoy what I can while it lasts.

 

[Spikebuck]

...the conservation departments will follow the votes and the money, at least in my opinion.

Yep, that's true. I fought high power scopes on muzzleloaders in Minnesota (except for those with an approved permit due to vision issues) for years with my representatives and through sporting newspapers via Letters to the Editor. While inlines were long a part of the season already, I figured the one thing that made the season not turn into a 300 yard single-shot rifle season, which is actually dangerous in much of the state where rifles are NOT allowed for deer, was adding powered optics. At least open or peep sights or non-powered scopes kept the ranges down to some degree making the hunt more challenging and "traditional." While the DNR acknowledged publicly that adding such optics would probably increase the harvest in that season, they called it a "social issue." They said they would just manage the season based on projected harvest (read as reduce it if harvest became too great). The legislature finally passed it because there was more pressure to add scopes than against it, so that's the way it worked here.

 

[springfield art]

I started making a new muzzleloader and have found making these last guns the the quality castings and quality wood are harder to find. When talking to suppliers they said they have to compete with the Orientals for the wood and the old quality parts were cast by by people now in their 80's now and very few have taken up the craft.

Then when I hit the hills to hunt, I find that most of them are shooting 500 yard plus guns that load from the muzzle and that is about all you can say about them. In our state the archers get what they want and the traditionalist get the "shaft". I have tried persuade the Big Game Board to change the hunts around to have the old time muzzleloader hunt available again, but have received deaf ears. The traditionists in our state are so fragmented and agree on nothing so we get nothing.

How do you see it?

Have you been checking the suppliers that advertise in Muzzle Blasts and Muzzleloader magazines? Also, I thought all states had a black powder traditional season; guess not!?

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

It does not help when youre in a small tight knit community others still rip you off. My buddies caught a guy on their cams taking a stand and another Camera.

 

[rich pierce]

By the way you whitetail hunter don't even understand the western mule deer problem. With the majority of the land public and the declining numbers of mule deer and yes increasing number of hunter applying. Any fair unit you apply for you may be hunting only once in two to three years.

You are correct- I had no idea that there is a scarcity of mule deer and permits are hard to get. Sad to hear this.

 

[Peregrine]

When people are offering sky high money for exclusive private land leases and more 'common' people are stuffed onto ever smaller open pieces of ground, we as a whole community are paying the price. Hunting as a past time for the 'every man' is certainly disappearing. The attitude seems to be 'get in as quickly as you can with as much technological stuff as is available, shoot something from as far away as possible, drive right to it and get back on social media in time for lunch to brag about your hunting prowess... All before your feet get cold! We can't ever go back, but hopefully we can all hold on a little longer .....That's what the man who repaired Conestoga wagons said as the model T rolled into town!

 

[Old Hawkeye]

Hunting and fishing and the ways of the outdoors were lost back in the 80s and 90s when people failed to pass that stuff on to their kids.

Baby boomers who grew up in they heyday of the 60s and 70s but let your kids play video games when you should have had them out in the woods you know what I mean.

If the declining trend in hunting and fishing license sales continues for another decade or two, imagine what that future looks like,

Traditionalists? I am in my 40s and am BY FAR one of the youngest people I know who has any interest whatsoever in blackpowder. Just look around at the next shoot or look at the average age of many on here.

Most of my friends and family and people I hunt with have no comprehension why someone would limit themselves to a primitive hunting rifle when magnum scoped rifles with stainless barrels and synthetic stocks are available. Despite my best efforts to influence these folks, most of them think my BP is just plain weird.

We're finished in another decade. The cottage industry will dry up and there will be no one to advocate for us when the game commissions look to do away with traditional BP seasons in favor of extending the modern seasons and just trying to do whatever they can to sell a license to someone who would otherwise spend his free time playing on a smartphone.

Hate to be bleak, but that's just how I see it. I am trying to enjoy what I can while it lasts.

Not that way in my area at all. I think your gloom & doom feeling may be your locale, rather than nationwide. Western states are selling more big game tags than ever, to the point that some friends of mine in Wyoming didn't even draw a RESIDENT elk tag this year. If there are fewer hunters, that means there are more places for me to hunt without a crowd, but my experience is quite the opposite. In my area the public hunting areas are over run with hunters & our deer kill is at record levels. Why would game departments "do away" with the revenue stream they get from muzzleloader seasons. Do you really think they want to stop selling TWO licenses & just "extend the modern season". There is more to the ML world than this forum, organized clubs, ML magazines, & rendezvous. All my ML hunting buddies never heard of or have any interest in the things I just mentioned, but they hunt with & shoot ML's with enthusiasm. ML hunting, albeit mostly with in-lines, is at an all time high in my state & if more "Traditionalists" would be more inclusive instead of exclusive & be positive instead of negative our hobby would be healthier. I have friends that use both modern & traditional MLs. The last thing they want is a lecture from a "Traditionalist" about how they are "doing it all wrong". It doesn't have to be a one or the other thing, like so many here advocate. Cheer up, it's not as bad as many here are saying. Just food for thought.

 

[Frontier's]

I watched the patriot with my 25 year old friend and he asked... When was this war? The 1800s?

 

[Old Hawkeye]

I watched the patriot with my 25 year old friend and he asked... When was this war? The 1800s?

The normal state of affairs has always been that the majority of folks are without any knowledge or sense of history, no matter the era. That's why we keep repeating it! I bet at 50 years old his perspective may change.

 

[flashpoint]

Quite frankly, I'd be surprised (stunned) if any indoor range allowed muzzleloaders. Imagine the smoke problems if even 1/4 of the shooters on the line shot a black powder weapon... T/C is still making muzzleloaders. Margins/sales are apparently better with the inline stuff.

I know that T/C is making MLs but those are all In-Line correct?

 

[flashpoint]

.58 caliber

.58 caliber

Nice deer but that's a really nice gun. Who made it?

 

[Nameless Hunter]

I know that T/C is making MLs but those are all In-Line correct?

Yep. That's ALL they make. One model is even below $200. If you are brand new to muzzleloading and have no idea about what is what, then $200 looks pretty cheap when compared to a Pedersoli, or a Lyman, or even a Traditions side hammer. I have no doubt that some mkt. group (way back when) decided that having a muzzleloader that looked more like a regular rifle (scope and all) would sell better to people shooting modern rifles. Apparently, it's also a lot cheaper to make. If we want people to embrace traditional muzzleloading, it's certainly not going to be about cost.

I agree with a lot that has been said. Be open minded and encouraging when you see people shooting inline rifles. Share the joy from shooting a flintlock or traditional caplock. Some of them will appreciate the extra challenge of a traditional weapon and want to give it a try at some point. I did - got tired of my scoped TC Encore, sold it, and bought a 50 cal TC Hawken, then a 54 cal Lyman GPR, and now have a Kibler on the way. My nephew hunts with a center-fire rifle he inherited from his pa-in-law, but recently told me he also inherited a muzzleloader kit (doesn't know the make yet), and that he and his son want to finish it and hunt with it. You never know...

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

First the bad news....food my run short in supply during a crisis. The good news....most of us may have an expanded hunting season

 

[billraby]

The old guys were saying the same thing 100 years ago. The young guys all want the flashy new technology stuff. History is boring and stupid and all that. History and tradition is old people stuff. Some of those 25 year old guys blasting away with an AR-15 with be getting interested in traditional rifles in about 20 years. A good number of the old guys with traditional guns were blasting away with the modern guns when they were younger.

The inline guns are about the greatest thing that ever happened to keep traditional shooting alive and well because it is putting muzzleloaders into the hands of the younger crowd. Even if they are made of plastic. As the years go by they will turn into old men that start thinking of the past and looking at real rifles. How many of you reading this never gave muzzleloaders a second thought until you had grey hair? There are plenty of new people coming into this. They are just coming into it at age 50 instead of 20.

 

[Whitworth]

Well my brother (66) and I (69) didn't start playing with black powder until a couple of years ago. We both used to be NRA High-power shooters and lead sprayers with unmentionables. Tiny groups at long range combined with firepower can be a powerful aphrodisiac however we discovered the relaxing pace of BP shooting after Steve drug home a $20 flea market T/C White Mountain Carbine with a rounded off and stuck nipple. He got it out in a jiffy so I dusted off my late friend's T/C Hulk'n (ha,ha) and after casting some ball we started shooting and learning. The time loading allows for pleasant conversation (dry ball) and the following gun cleaning gives time for observations and critiques. We have taken under our wings a young lead slinger and now budding muzzle loader. He wants to shoot his Grandfather's rifle and yearns to learn more. Giving him another whiff of Brimstone next week as we shoot out 2020. Hopefully his lead slinging buddies take an interest as he shares his tales of big bullets launched by flame and clouds of white smoke.

 

[Zonie]

I'm closing this thread.

Way too much talk about modern in-line guns and discussing those is against the forums rules.