Traditions 1858 Army Revolver - Nipples no longer fitting in cylinder

[osdopasdp]

Two nipples won't screw back in to cylinder after second cleaning

I purchased an 1858 .44 Remington revolver from Traditions as my first foray into black powder pistols. It came dirty and gunked up prior to that, but no problem - I took apart the gun and cleaned everything thoroughly, put it back together and had no issues shooting. Target shooting was a blast.

Fast forward to my next cleaning -- two of the nipples will no longer screw in to the cylinder. Cleaning was thorough and I'm using lube to no avail.

I realize the expected answer here is that the threading was messed up by me in the two problematic cylinders, but I was careful during cleaning and when screwing back in to not force the nipples. And while I know these nipples aren't of the highest quality, I don't believe any of them are the issue since they all will screw in to the four working cylinders. (If I did mess up the threading, I think this has to be some real shoddy craftsmanship).

Visually, I don't see the threads stripped or damaged (images are attached for one of the holes but were difficult to capture and make viewable).

Not sure what to do here. I'm doubtful purchasing new nipples will do anything. I'm not confident in re-tapping the holes or know if that would even be feasible. I haven't seen others report any similar issues with these revolvers. I guess I will contact Traditions but was hopeful to figure out something on my own.

 

[hawkeye2]

If the nipples interchange they aren't the problem. It looks like the top couple of threads are damaged. They can be repaired with a tap but a taper (starting) tap is long enough to possibly hit the cylinder wall before it cleans up the threads. A plug tap would work but will be a little more difficult to start. The nipples on a Remington are at an angle to the chambers so it isn't possible to go from the chamber out and this also makes them a little more difficult to start even with good threads. I usually use a short piece of vacuum or aquarium tubing slipped over the part of the nipple where the cap goes to hold them with when starting.

If you don't feel confident doing this take the cylinder to a machinist or smith to repair as it's easy to screw it up. Stop by the hardware store and buy a bolt with the same threads as the nipples and you can use that to check the threads in the cylinder in the future. The length of the bolt makes it easy to hold and start it in the cylinder.

 

[osdopasdp]

Appreciate the reply.

I think I just need to come to terms with the fact that the threads are damaged. I can get a few turns on one of the nipples before it gets caught. Other one is in worse shape.

It looks like the tap I need is M6. The taper tap should be safest to use so long as it doesn't hit the cylinder walls is what I'm hearing from you and understanding from research. That or a plug should work. It's just about getting the tap properly started.

When you refer to using tubing on the nipple when starting, are you talking about just when you screw in the nipples to get a better grip to screw in at an angle? I think I'm not connecting the dots on this part.

Thanks again.

 

[osdopasdp]

Mmm seems like it's either M6x1 or M6x.75 from what I'm reading. Are these close enough to work if I just use M6x1? I assume it would just be a bit looser.

Or contact Traditions to get exact size?

 

[2 shots]

has to be the right thread. theres no close enough. bring it to the hardware store , they should be able to size it for you.

 

[hawkeye2]

Appreciate the reply.

I think I just need to come to terms with the fact that the threads are damaged. I can get a few turns on one of the nipples before it gets caught. Other one is in worse shape.

It looks like the tap I need is M6. The taper tap should be safest to use so long as it doesn't hit the cylinder walls is what I'm hearing from you and understanding from research. That or a plug should work. It's just about getting the tap properly started.

When you refer to using tubing on the nipple when starting, are you talking about just when you screw in the nipples to get a better grip to screw in at an angle? I think I'm not connecting the dots on this part.

Thanks again.

Getting a tap started in the hole in a cylinder with damaged threads can be a bear, I can tell you that from experience and I have tapped a lot of holes and yes, I did screw one up just as you did. M6x.75 Someone is going to come along and suggest running the tap in from the inside of the chamber but I can assure that cannot be done with a Remington because of the angle of the nipples to the cylinder bore. You'll see as soon as you get a tap and the cylinder in hand. The idea works fine for Colts and a lot of other percussion revolvers though.

May I suggest, without offending you, that you take it to a machinist. It's possible to cause far more damage than you already have if the tap starts wrong.

An inch or so of tubing. Just enough to hold with a thumb and forefinger. It's a lot better than trying to start a nipple in a Remington with just one's fingers. Never use a nipple wrench to start a nipple, that's just asking for trouble.

 

[rusticbob]

I also use a small piece of clear plastic tubing to start the nipples in the cylinder, you might try that.

 

[osdopasdp]

Getting a tap started in the hole in a cylinder with damaged threads can be a bear, I can tell you that from experience and I have tapped a lot of holes and yes, I did screw one up just as you did. M6x.75 Someone is going to come along and suggest running the tap in from the inside of the chamber but I can assure that cannot be done with a Remington because of the angle of the nipples to the cylinder bore. You'll see as soon as you get a tap and the cylinder in hand. The idea works fine for Colts and a lot of other percussion revolvers though.

May I suggest, without offending you, that you take it to a machinist. It's possible to cause far more damage than you already have if the tap starts wrong.

An inch or so of tubing. Just enough to hold with a thumb and forefinger. It's a lot better than trying to start a nipple in a Remington with just one's fingers. Never use a nipple wrench to start a nipple, that's just asking for trouble.

Thank you again. I have been starting with a nipple wrench when screwing in the nipples - might be what messed up the threads. Really hard to correctly get the nipple to set with the wrench, eh? Need to carefully feel it?

Your machinist suggestion is on point I think. Obviously most of this is new to me, and it's not worth further messing up the cylinders.

 

[Ed C.]

The cash nipple wrench attachment will fit in a 1/4" hex screwdriver type driver that accepts multiple bits. It lessens the chance of cross threading the nipples when reinstalling. It makes it easy to get a good straight start and you can use a very light touch. Anytime anything does not start easily on a gun.....stop....something is not right!

 

[ormond tony]

There are several threads about this. I had an issue where I put in 4 nipples and the 5th wouldn't screw in. Turned out that the last two nipples had a specific place to go due to the manufacturer building the cylinder erroneously or something. Once I determined which nipples went with the "correct" 'hole', they all went in fine. A pain in the tookus.

 

[osdopasdp]

There are several threads about this. I had an issue where I put in 4 nipples and the 5th wouldn't screw in. Turned out that the last two nipples had a specific place to go due to the manufacturer building the cylinder erroneously or something. Once I determined which nipples went with the "correct" 'hole', they all went in fine. A pain in the tookus.

Thanks for commenting. I'll give another shot at trying the nipples on different cylinders -- otherwise am re-tapping this weekend. Not the best made guns.

 

[Mike in FL]

Ivs had that problem. Get a bristle brush small enough to fit in where the nipples go. Scrub that are with the brush, not just back and forth, but turn the brush, rotate it so it contacts the receiving threads.

 

[M. De Land]

Two nipples won't screw back in to cylinder after second cleaning

I purchased an 1858 .44 Remington revolver from Traditions as my first foray into black powder pistols. It came dirty and gunked up prior to that, but no problem - I took apart the gun and cleaned everything thoroughly, put it back together and had no issues shooting. Target shooting was a blast.

Fast forward to my next cleaning -- two of the nipples will no longer screw in to the cylinder. Cleaning was thorough and I'm using lube to no avail.

I realize the expected answer here is that the threading was messed up by me in the two problematic cylinders, but I was careful during cleaning and when screwing back in to not force the nipples. And while I know these nipples aren't of the highest quality, I don't believe any of them are the issue since they all will screw in to the four working cylinders. (If I did mess up the threading, I think this has to be some real shoddy craftsmanship).

Visually, I don't see the threads stripped or damaged (images are attached for one of the holes but were difficult to capture and make viewable).

Not sure what to do here. I'm doubtful purchasing new nipples will do anything. I'm not confident in re-tapping the holes or know if that would even be feasible. I haven't seen others report any similar issues with these revolvers. I guess I will contact Traditions but was hopeful to figure out something on my own.

I can see some buggered threads in the picture. You need a taper tap for alignment and then a bottom tap to get them cleaned up to the base and remember the threaded nipple holes are generally a few degrees angular not parallel to the chamber.

 

[ormond tony]

I can see some buggered threads in the picture. You need a taper tap for alignment and then a bottom tap to get them cleaned up to the base and remember the threaded nipple holes are generally a few degrees angular not parallel to the chamber.

This has happened many times before and addressed here. I ran into this problem. Turns out that during the fitting process at the manufacturer, there may be a tool just off center that created a nipple hole just a bit off. One nipple was screwed into that hole and therefore that nipple only works in that hole. Just one possibility. Problem is finding that nipple when you've taken them all off at the same time. Just an idea.

 

[M. De Land]

This has happened many times before and addressed here. I ran into this problem. Turns out that during the fitting process at the manufacturer, there may be a tool just off center that created a nipple hole just a bit off. One nipple was screwed into that hole and therefore that nipple only works in that hole. Just one possibility. Problem is finding that nipple when you've taken them all off at the same time. Just an idea.

Nah, that was a nipple cross thread plain and simple, not a factory threading issue which is done in a gang jig in a turret mil.

 

[azmntman]

OP get this corrected?? Yet???

 

[user 50393]

The rubber tubing trick makes a lot of sense and does work. A 'reverse' twist works to 'seat' the thread contact before screwing in ANY screw. A quarter inch 3/16 ths socket can be modded to fit the nipples. Or buy the nipple wrench from Slixsprings.

 

[Smokerr]

I second the cone wrench from Slixsprings. I had a cheap Traditions one as I needed to work on the chambers.

I have not found the install to be an issue but I worked on machinery for 35 years career wise and around it from when I was a kid.

The Slixsprings cone wrench is perfect feel to the hand. I bought it for the end quality and did not think the cross piece part looked all that useful, I was plumb wrong. You could not do better than that.

And get the cones as well. I would go with the longer of the two options based on having to take a bit off the hammer to get to fire all cones reliably.

Not trying to be unkind but it sounds like you don't have mechanical knowledge or feel. If so, then yea, take it to a gunsmith (not many machinists would tackle something small like that let alone what it does). Its a non issue if you have done this but you can mess it up beyond repair if not.

That said, a standard tap should be you more than far enough to clear up the threads up top. Maybe the whole thing, you would just need to be careful as you got through, its not like you hit the chamber wall immediately.

 

[Mike in FL]

I can't comprehend how these issues arise. Do what you know you are supposed to do; don't add stuff.

 

[Encore50Cal]

The best bet if you have to take it to a machinist, ask about the cost and compare that to a replacement cylinder from Traditions. https://www.traditionsfirearms.com/product/1858-Spare-Cylinder-.44-cal-A1633. Yup they are expensive but if the machinist charges too much or it is really screwed up this is a last resort.