Traditions Hawkens accuracy help.

[Odd-Broccoli-474]

Most likely you're using a thin .015 patch.

With the traditions hawken ( I have built 6 of them and still have 3 for myself 4 if you count a factory made flintlock ) you're going to want to use at least an .018" patch with a .490 round ball. Check the tang screw every 10 shots as they often loosen up unless the tang and trigger assembly has been bedded. Try the swab the bore with a water based ( or straight water ) after each shot.

Don't bother weighing balls, its a waste of time. I shoot mine out to 200 yards and it doesnt care if a ball is +/- 4 to 6 grains.

While RS or Select is a good powder, I'd suggest switching to Pyrodex P if real black powder is not available. 70gr pyrodex P, .018 to .020 patch and a .490 round ball is a heck of a shooting load in all my traditions hawken rifles.

One thing that is highly important is consistent seating pressure. If you are getting sloppy and not seating the ball with somewhat fairly consistent seating pressure, thats going to show up, especially at longer distances.

Chances are, your rifle still has the plastic sights? If so, you need to cut a dovetail for a rear sight and get something real. Plastic sights have no business being on any gun.



90gr 2fg gearhart owen black powder with a .490 round ball and .020" patch at 100 yards. Thats a killer group for such a low cost muzzleloader.


These are highly important areas to bed on the CVA & Traditions sidelocks.




This you may find helpful as well,
https://buckskinsbp.blogspot.com/2019/10/choices-galore-substitute-black-powder.html

I think the patch I’m using is actually .010 with a .490 ball. I’m pretty new to this muzzleloader stuff so I could be totally wrong about the pillow ticking. I did upgrade from the cheap plastic sights. Its got a rear peep sight and a front globe sight. I’ve enjoyed shooting with them and dont feel like they are the issue.

 

[Odd-Broccoli-474]

That's right, when I had my Traditions Hawken St. Louis .50 it was a pretty good shooter at 100 yards without scope or vernier tang sight, just open sight... the only different for me was the thickness of the patch : 0.010" (0,25 mm), 60g of FFFg and lubed with neatsfoot oil....
Odd-Broccoli, look inside with a bit of cotton wool on your jag if no roughness, if white hairs remained in the stripes this one must be used and polished a little by shooting, possibly a bit of JB paste will do the job if it is more important....
I sold it few years ago and the guy is happy of it...

Here what was the result just before I sold this rifle (15 shots in each target at 100 yards):
View attachment 89568

So first what is JB paste? Next if I swap with a bit of cotton and there is white strands of cotton on the dark strips that means the barrel has some roughness?

 

[Odd-Broccoli-474]

You just built the rifle from a kit, you have a new barrel.

So far, all we know o your load is that you are using 80 grains (volume measure?) of Pyrodex R and a ball and patch. Give us some more information. What's the ball diameter? What's the patch thickness? What's the patch thickness? What's the patch lubrication? Is the crown at the muzzle smooth or is the crown sharp? Are the sights tight in the dovetails? Your description of the impacts would seem to be loose sights. Are you shooting in bright sunlight with variable clouds often shading the sights? Were the shooting conditions windy? What do the fired patches look like? Any holes or torn areas?

Yes that is 80 gr volume measure of hodgdon triple seven FFG. Ball dia is .490, with TC prelubed pillow ticking, I think its .010. My patches seem to be a little dry recently so I’ve been lubing them with TC bore butter. I haven't noticed any rough spots by the bore. My sights seem tight, bright sunny shooting conditions. Slight cross breeze from the left. The patches I have been able to find were burnt around the edges and I didn't notice any holes from roughness. Sorry I didnt include in the original post.

 

[Frontier's]

That's your problem. T7 is a very hot powder and your patches are way to thin. Drop it down to 60gr and use a tighter .018 patch.

 

[Erwan]

So first what is JB paste? Next if I swap with a bit of cotton and there is white strands of cotton on the dark strips that means the barrel has some roughness?

The JB paste (red) is a finishing and polishing paste for bores...
The rifling on the barrels of the Spanish rifles in kit to be assembled are not always well finished and scratch a little then the rifling of the barrel scrape the cotton and hang the hairs of the cotton, with a small paste to polish, it will be in order in little time: the polishing will avoid hanging the hairs of the cotton and especially the cotton of the patches ...
It looks like this, the blues is softer than the red :

You can find it anywhere, like here or other places, for example : BROWNELLS JB BORE BRIGHT BORE FINISHING COMPND 2oz - Graf & Sons ... and of course by Brownells...

 

[SDSmlf]

That's your problem. T7 is a very hot powder and your patches are way to thin. Drop it down to 60gr and use a tighter .018 patch.

@Frontier's suggestion is a great place to start. Thicker patch material, less T7, and/or, try real blackpowder. M

 

[Britsmoothy]

Or, add a firewall.

 

[Erwan]

Or, add a firewall.

Windows, Mac or Linux ?

 

[Britsmoothy]

Windows, Mac or Linux ?

Sometimes I rammed a blank patch first or a thin leather or card wad.

 

[Erwan]

I've an old flinter like that : each first shoot of the day I put a bit powder and over it a small disk made in a beer coasters (it's Heineken, sorry for that ), after that all is clean. Do it also with the Tryon but wit this rifle it is at each shot with 60grains of FFFg and a caliber .450"-500 grains bullet (that for 100 yards).
After that all works pretty nice and never any virus or intrusion inside...
Have a nice day.

 

[gun_painter]

I think the patch I’m using is actually .010 with a .490 ball. I’m pretty new to this muzzleloader stuff so I could be totally wrong about the pillow ticking. I did upgrade from the cheap plastic sights. Its got a rear peep sight and a front globe sight. I’ve enjoyed shooting with them and dont feel like they are the issue.

I had accuracy issues with mine with a .010" patch. I like the slightly looser patch as it's easier to seat in my rifle cause I don't want to have to hammer the ball down the bore. Mine tightened up substantially when I started using ox yoke wonder wads over the powder.

My loading procedure is pour powder, place wonder wad in bore, then I take a cleaning patch, soak it with spit, then push the patch and wad down the bore, seat the wonder wad while patching the bore, pull cleaning patch out, and the wad stays. THEN I load my patched ball. Works pretty well for me.

My magic load right now is 70gr Pyro P, wonder wad, .010" patch, .490 round ball. I just got 3lbs of Swiss 2f, and 1 of 1.5F that i'm looking forward to finding a load with. Hoping the 2f will ease the harsh recoil a bit from the 320gr conicals.

Branden