Traditions is the "Harbor Freight Tools" of Muzzleloading?

[Austinstephens]

So, I take it with some on this forum, unless you drop a over grand on a muzzle loader, you own cheap. Is that correct?

 

[sturmkatze]

How about this. You bring your Traditions, Ill bring my home made. We shoot until malfunction.
There is a C note here says I know who's will quit first.

Whatev. Who cares? I despise a man who would run down another man's gun or kit. Is this where I make fun of your username? Like guys on a Roman forum using "Julius Caesar". (eyes roll) Be a little more humble there Billy.

 

[edw.marshall]

Listen to you. Jukar is the company that did the manufacturing for CVA. It's popular among the "hipster" crowd to refer to CVA guns as "Jukar" to try and denigrate them. These are the same goobers who call a flinter a "rocklock" -- when I see that, I generally stop reading that post and move on. Like when I hear some crusty dork start off with "You'd be a damn fool to..." click. Away I go. Don't need more puffy, snarky know-it-all-itis.

As to the nipple in the roof. EXACTLY what were the circumstances? Did Billy-Bob perhaps overload the gun? Was the nipple loose? Were you there? Any of that could happen to a custom gun. Most gun accidents ARE due to operator error. Like all the guys who bring in a loaded gun to the gunsmith and say "Ah loaned it to my brother and he gave it back to be like this." Sure

Well said!!

 

[jim mencken]

i have atraditions 50 cal hawken style rifle and enjoy it , just wish i had been a better craftsmen

 

[dave951]

After reading thus far, my $.02 FWIW. Traditions guns are built to a price point. With that understood, there is a place for them in the muzzleloading spectrum. Will they ever be a "match winner", probably not. I think if they get folks interested in muzzleloading and later they want the higher end guns, then they served a purpose. Even at that, they are quite capable of putting meat in a freezer or serving as a gun to teach with and still have pretty good accuracy. They make a good intro gun and that's something that is always needed.

 

[Austinstephens]

How about this. You bring your Traditions, Ill bring my home made. We shoot until malfunction.
There is a C note here says I know who's will quit fi

How about this. You bring your Traditions, Ill bring my home made. We shoot until malfunction.
There is a C note here says I know who's will quit first.

Oh boy...You probably use Vagisil to lube your patches,

 

[edw.marshall]

So, I take it with some on this forum, unless you drop a over grand on a muzzle loader, you own cheap. Is that correct?

Some folks just like throwing something against the wall & seeing if it sticks!

 

[dave951]

So, I take it with some on this forum, unless you drop a over grand on a muzzle loader, you own cheap. Is that correct?

Yup, there are snobs everywhere. They are the type I like to shoot against in a match with one of my seriously ugly guns. Beating them like a drum with a sewerpipe on a stick is great fun.

 

[jim mencken]

love mudbugs

 

[HighUintas]

Regardless of people's thoughts on traditions guns now, didn't they just purchase the rights/designs from CVA? So the exact same guns? People seem to love CVAs.

Anyway, I almost bought a traditions mountain rifle kit before I started building one from scratch. I just didn't like the idea of non removable breech and only 50cal option.

 

[HighUintas]

Regardless of people's thoughts on traditions guns now, didn't they just purchase the rights/designs from CVA? So the exact same guns? People seem to love CVAs.

Anyway, I almost bought a traditions mountain rifle kit before I started building one from scratch. I just didn't like the idea of non removable breech and only 50cal option.

Ha. Nevermind. Someone else already answered it in this thread.

I am surprised to see very discussion of the Traditions mountain rifle. That's what I'd get if I were getting one

 

[sturmkatze]

Regardless of people's thoughts on traditions guns now, didn't they just purchase the rights/designs from CVA? So the exact same guns? People seem to love CVAs.

Anyway, I almost bought a traditions mountain rifle kit before I started building one from scratch. I just didn't like the idea of non removable breech and only 50cal option.

CVA got sued over a gun with a pressed in breech plug blowing up -- at least that's what I read. The current CVA is a different company that only sells inline cheater guns. Traditions now sells the traditional sidelock models CVA made. I'm not sure what legal hoohoo went down. It's all good.

 

[vintovka]

I can’t speak for all Traditions locks, but the ones I’ve seen have both a bridle& flys in the tumbler ( for double set triggers), the mainspring. & sear spring are good quality & overall seem to be trouble free AND spare parts are available from vendors.

Seen a number of spanish locks made with no bridle. The hammer/tumbler and sear are held by a single screw each. When used the these parts often leave score marks on the inside of the plate from misalignment. Also never saw one with a fly as no way to retain it. Some came in with the hammer screw broken off in the tumbler due to overtightening to compensate for wear. When these were under $20 was easier to replace than fix. The better CVA locks seem fine and serviceable.

 

[Walkingeagle]

So, my personal experience…
I bought my better half a Traditions Hawken Woodsman in .50 percussion off of a friend of mine. She shoots it very well and is more than capable of clover leaf groups at 50 yards. That gun is light, well balanced with a fit/finish that is top notch!
Now I’ve another good friend who bought the same rifle around the same time (both are around 15yrs old now) but in flint. His arrived with the touch hole buried way below the bottom of the pan, so far in fact that he used a die grinder to deepen the pan enough to expose. So you tell me if Traditions are quality or not. I would not tell my lady her’s is junk though….
FWIW though, I’ve never owned or even seen a poor quality TC, which are basically the same price point (used). At least here they are.
Walk

 

[Okie Hog]

For many years i considered having a custom muzzleloader made; money is not an issue. But i'm not sure what constitutes a "custom" muzzleloading rifle. The ones i have seen and handled had locks, barrels and triggers purchased from popular makers. One had a beautiful stock made from a blank, the others had stocks purchased from stock makers.

My current muzzleloaders are hunting and shooting guns. They sometimes get banged up from use. Banging up a up second hand conventional muzzleloader is one thing. Banging up a "custom" muzzleloader is another thing.

Besides, the folks who stand to inherit my stuff would rather have money.

 

[vintovka]

As to the nipple in the roof. EXACTLY what were the circumstances? Did Billy-Bob perhaps overload the gun? Was the nipple loose? Were you there? Any of that could happen to a custom gun. Most gun accidents ARE due to operator error. Like all the guys who bring in a loaded gun to the gunsmith and say "Ah loaned it to my brother and he gave it back to be like this." Sure

The event happened well before i was a club member but i recall the late Andy Fautheree inspected the gun saying the threads in the the bolster had stripped out with a "normal" load and the hammer sheared off in process. They used to check us newbies stuff and used the roof "display" to make their points. Andy was one of my mentors and a ML master gunsmith, Do google him.

 

[sheriff john]

Companies still in business, for me, is an important thing. Products for which parts are available, likewise. Tells me the company is meeting a demand. "Classic" is one thing until a part is needed. "Functional" puts meat in the freezer.

Some modern-made M/L's were never accurate reproductions of any original, won't "pass muster" at re-enactors' events, but still are a source of pride and fun. Enjoy the sport, encourage others, and we all win.

 

[vintovka]

What kills me is seeing CVA "kentucky" style pistol kits in "blister packs" hanging on pegboard racks for around $200. That was 2020. Soon there may be no more inexpensive ML's at all.

 

[Roy L. Oak]

I see a few comments here that probably need a little clearing up. Traditions Performance Firearms is an importer and distributor importing Pietta revolvers for distribution in the United States. These are the same revolvers, model for model, as any other Pietta made model of the same model number. EMF, which is majority owned by Pietta and is Pietta's main distributor in the United States has models that Traditions does not, which is what gives one the impression that EMF distributed revolvers are superior to Traditions Pietta made revolvers.

Traditions pistols and rifles are currently imported from and made by Ardesa of Spain, located in Vizcaya, Spain. Ardesa manufactures top quality reproductions of famous flintlock and percussion rifles and pistols, 209 primed in-line ignition rifles, and a full line of accessories, that are imported by Traditions Performance Firearms. In the United States, Ardesa guns are distributed under the name of TRADITIONS currently.

In the history of Spanish made replicas, Jukar was a Spanish Arsenal that made arms under contract to other companies. They made some early replica muzzleloaders and eventually were under contract to build guns for CVA. Jukar was eventually absorbed into Dikar, who now owns CVA. The muzzleloaders of CVA and Traditions are manufactured in Spain in the same region: Vasque Country. CVA is manufactured by Dikar and Traditions by Ardesa. Dikar is in Bergara and Ardesa in Zamudio (Bilbao). They are towns that are less than 70 milles apart. The quality of the muzzleloaders was improved in Ardesa (Traditions), but with respect to those of Dikar (CVA), not so much. In general Ardesa's rifles and pistols (Traditions) have a very good price-quality ratio. Bottom line, you get what you pay for.

For more history of the replica industry you can find most companies listed on my web site Cap and Ball Revolvers. It includes most maker marks and distributor marks and some articles on the history of various makers and distributors going back to the beginning of the industry. Much of the histories are from the noted of Dr. Jim Davis he passed on to me before he passed away in the fall of 2019. The web site is an attempt to keep his legacy alive. Hope folks find it useful.

 

[Nappers]

FWIW, I love my Traditions Trapper model pistol. Very well made and shoots better than the shooter. I was very fortunate to inherit a custom California Half Stock from my 2nd cousin. Beautiful gun. I thoroughly enjoy shooting them both. I would not hesitate to buy another Traditions. I also am banned from entering a Harbor Freight, we just had one open in my area right next to the grocery store. I do research and read reviews.