Trap Gun
- Thread starter Fez
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"DUH!!! funny how someone else can see the easiest and most obvious route....Thanks FishDFly"
Actually some of it is laziness, it's easier some times to refer folks than to practice my typing skills. Plus, you never know you might become a member and show up in Friendship.
Actually some of it is laziness, it's easier some times to refer folks than to practice my typing skills. Plus, you never know you might become a member and show up in Friendship.
I shoot roughly 60/40 since I have started shooting what many consider the ugliest trap gun ever, the Browining Cynergy. I tested one on a whim and was hooked on how it felt...my K32 now sits in the safe more and more often.
My teammates thought I was crazy for shooting the Cynergy over the K32 and now with my interest in muzzle-loading trap they are sure I have gone nuts.
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For the past 10 years or more I have been using a Vic Beeson in line 12 ga. for 10-16-20 yard trap at Friendship, Ind., in the matches. It is an in-line action with a Remington barrel with a fixed modified choke. It handles the square trap load of 2 3/4 drams and an ounce and one eighth of shot. Vic Beeson died a few years ago, but there are others making similar trap guns. I think contacting the NMLRA, as mentioned above in a comment, would be a good place to start. Will Elliot has been in charge of the Friendship trap range and may be able to provide further information.
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I only shoot a hundred clays a year now, but enjoy using the guns pictured below.
The original Nock 13 gauge pictured on top is very light, with instant ignition and an unchoked Damascus barrel.
The Mike Brooks fowler has a 12 gauge Getz barrel jug choked modified.
The production Pedersoli Mortimer on the bottom is heavy. I removed the 1 1/2 pound stock weight, but still find the chrome lined barrel makes it heavier than it needs to be. After having the lock improved by Brad Emig ignition was instant. All three guns feature similar construction details important to a shotgun shooter. They all feature hooked breeches and keyed construction for ease of takedown and cleaning. Each has performed best with 3 drams of 2FG powder behind 4 pieced overshot cards, 1 1/8 -1 1/4 ounces of shot topped off by 1-2 pierced overshot cards. These standard loads are very comfortable to shoot. For trap shooting the weight of the Pedersoli shouldn't be objectionable. You can pick up a used Pedersoli Mortimer for $1,000.00 or less. The chrome bore will prevent you from being able to jug choke it, but it should still perform well at 20-25 yards. Like most production guns, the flintlock will benefit from a good tuning, and pan to barrel fit may require some patience and care to adjust. It's a lot of "bang" for the buck. Be prepared to spend $3-4,000.00 and 2 years waiting for a nice custom half stock flint fowler, or invest $4-6,000.00 on a nice old original. I use the Pedersoli as a low cost "training" gun for those interested in, but inexperienced with flintlock fowlers.
The original Nock 13 gauge pictured on top is very light, with instant ignition and an unchoked Damascus barrel.
The Mike Brooks fowler has a 12 gauge Getz barrel jug choked modified.
The production Pedersoli Mortimer on the bottom is heavy. I removed the 1 1/2 pound stock weight, but still find the chrome lined barrel makes it heavier than it needs to be. After having the lock improved by Brad Emig ignition was instant. All three guns feature similar construction details important to a shotgun shooter. They all feature hooked breeches and keyed construction for ease of takedown and cleaning. Each has performed best with 3 drams of 2FG powder behind 4 pieced overshot cards, 1 1/8 -1 1/4 ounces of shot topped off by 1-2 pierced overshot cards. These standard loads are very comfortable to shoot. For trap shooting the weight of the Pedersoli shouldn't be objectionable. You can pick up a used Pedersoli Mortimer for $1,000.00 or less. The chrome bore will prevent you from being able to jug choke it, but it should still perform well at 20-25 yards. Like most production guns, the flintlock will benefit from a good tuning, and pan to barrel fit may require some patience and care to adjust. It's a lot of "bang" for the buck. Be prepared to spend $3-4,000.00 and 2 years waiting for a nice custom half stock flint fowler, or invest $4-6,000.00 on a nice old original. I use the Pedersoli as a low cost "training" gun for those interested in, but inexperienced with flintlock fowlers.
Great info....I have been looking at the Mortimer and Gibbs shotguns and would love to find an original gun in shooting condition. Thanks...
No offence your image of the three flintlocks look well but are not traditional to shoot trap these are the style of sporting flintlock sporting guns .Has I have said flintlocks were not used has live pigeon shooting the for runner to trap which began in the percussion period .Some of the replies to this thread are not too the rules of the Muzzle Loaders Forum so come on members lets keep it traditional
Feltwad
That is also a gun we don't discuss on the Muzzleloading Forum.
Rule 7: We do not discuss modern (in-line) muzzleloading firearms.
Hey Feltwad....can you clarify something for me. Maybe I have it wrong but do you mean using a flintlock is not traditional for shooting trap? I only ask because I see two classes...Manton and Lorenzoni trap shooting...one is percussion and the other is flintlock. I am just trying to get the right firearms for traditional gun trap shooting.
All muzzle loaders were loaded at the table by the shooter himself under the eye of a official so no cheating two bowls were on the table one with shot and one with powder .Each gun no matter of the bore size they all use the same load .from each bowl.
Feltwad
I'm sure somewhere there are better sources of information about when pigeon shoots first became popular but in discussing the popularity of the "new" percussion ignition, Richard Akehurst says in his book, "SPORTING GUNS",
"In the 1820's there was still heated controversy about the merits of the flint and the detonator, but by 1830 very few flints were still in use....
One of the factors which helped sway public opinion to the percussion gun was its superiority over the flintlock in pigeon match shooting. This sport had started in a casual way when the flintlock was still undisputed master but had quickly become highly competitive in nature. It is referred to in the Annals of Sporting of 1822 as a separate branch of gunnery practiced by a distinct class of sportsmen, with the perfection of marksmanship and the opportunity for betting as its professed objects... (pp 46, 47)
The text goes on to talk about pigeon matches and the large bore guns that were being used to improve the number of kills:
"...There was apparently much comment on the impropriety and unsportsmanlike nature of using guns this size, and it was suggested that there should be a return to the ordinary gun carried by gentlemen in pursuit of game. It is interesting to note this use, at that time, of specialized large-bore percussion guns for pigeon shooting. They were single-barreled guns of from ten to four bore, and can usually be distinguished from waterfowl guns by their shorter barrels, their higher degree of finish and in many cases the absence of a ramrod....
In pigeon shooting , where the sportsman had to shoot at a rising bird, a degree of elevation in sighting was desirable, so that the centre of the shot pattern would be high of the point of aim. The Manton type of elevated rib had this advantage, and its adoption by pigeon shooters led to its wider use in game shootng."
On page 46 it does show a drawing of a beautiful Double barrel flintlock shotgun saying,
"58. James Purdey double flint gun c. 1820. Very few flint guns were built by him and most of these were converted to percussion."
"In the 1820's there was still heated controversy about the merits of the flint and the detonator, but by 1830 very few flints were still in use....
One of the factors which helped sway public opinion to the percussion gun was its superiority over the flintlock in pigeon match shooting. This sport had started in a casual way when the flintlock was still undisputed master but had quickly become highly competitive in nature. It is referred to in the Annals of Sporting of 1822 as a separate branch of gunnery practiced by a distinct class of sportsmen, with the perfection of marksmanship and the opportunity for betting as its professed objects... (pp 46, 47)
The text goes on to talk about pigeon matches and the large bore guns that were being used to improve the number of kills:
"...There was apparently much comment on the impropriety and unsportsmanlike nature of using guns this size, and it was suggested that there should be a return to the ordinary gun carried by gentlemen in pursuit of game. It is interesting to note this use, at that time, of specialized large-bore percussion guns for pigeon shooting. They were single-barreled guns of from ten to four bore, and can usually be distinguished from waterfowl guns by their shorter barrels, their higher degree of finish and in many cases the absence of a ramrod....
In pigeon shooting , where the sportsman had to shoot at a rising bird, a degree of elevation in sighting was desirable, so that the centre of the shot pattern would be high of the point of aim. The Manton type of elevated rib had this advantage, and its adoption by pigeon shooters led to its wider use in game shootng."
On page 46 it does show a drawing of a beautiful Double barrel flintlock shotgun saying,
"58. James Purdey double flint gun c. 1820. Very few flint guns were built by him and most of these were converted to percussion."
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BJm
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Make the trip to Friendship In or contact Mike Longstreth if you want a nicely built flint shotgun & it won't cost you the earth. He is building several at the moment. Look him up thru the Muzzle Blast magazine
Zonie
Never believe everything you read in books because there is a large decree that is not true there is a lot of writers of these books that copy what has been said 50 to 100 years previous whose then writers have copied it from books say 150 plus before which finish with a result far from the truth . The best research is what you do yourself from original records such has the Census, patent officers and telephone directories ,from the late 70,s I did 25 years research in the north of the UK makers and entered over 300 known gunmaker from the Georgian period to the present ,Out of the research there was many untruths of what many top writers had wrote because most of their information was only copied from previous books
Feltwad
Never believe everything you read in books because there is a large decree that is not true there is a lot of writers of these books that copy what has been said 50 to 100 years previous whose then writers have copied it from books say 150 plus before which finish with a result far from the truth . The best research is what you do yourself from original records such has the Census, patent officers and telephone directories ,from the late 70,s I did 25 years research in the north of the UK makers and entered over 300 known gunmaker from the Georgian period to the present ,Out of the research there was many untruths of what many top writers had wrote because most of their information was only copied from previous books
Feltwad
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Thanks. Does Mike have a website? Do you have any pictures of his work? I currently have a deposit on a Tim Williams fowler and am awaiting completion, but can always use another one.
