Triple 7 for BP Revolver

[wojciste]

Sorry if this is a duplicate post or has been talked about before. What is everyones experience with Triple 7 in a BP revolver. Want to get shooters opinion before I buy some.

Thanks,

Steve

 

[mb3]

I have been using it in my Pietta and Uberti revolvers for some time. I find it easy to clean up and seems to shoot well. Remember to put a little less in than you normally would with BP, as 777 is a little hotter (15 to 20%).

 

[TFoley]

Sorry if this is a duplicate post or has been talked about before. What is everyones experience with Triple 7 in a BP revolver. Want to get shooters opinion before I buy some.

Thanks,

Steve

Well, Sir, in support of the previous post, when I shoot my ROA with RB and 26gr of Pyrodex P I get around 860fps.

Shooting the same RB with 22gr of Triple 7 gets me just about the same velocity.

tac

 

[rodwha]

"Remember to put a little less in than you normally would with BP, as 777 is a little hotter (15 to 20%)."

I continually come across statements such as this. When I've looked at Hogdgon's site it doesn't state such. I've emailed them twice and haven't received a response. Because I don't know I wouldn't fill up a cylinder on a reproduction or use a max load in a muzzleloader, but I wouldn't be concerned with a full chamber in my Old Army.

The other thing I see commonly stated is that Triple 7 shouldn't be heavily compressed. But according to their site it states not to do so when loading cartridges, but to otherwise give a firm compression. I've asked them to clarify that as well w/o a response.

So what is the truth of the matter?

 

[CoyoteJoe]

I believe the truth of the matter is that while blackpowder is absolutely predictable in its performance, 777 is an explosive compound which behaves somewhat like BP under certain circumstances and conditions and no one really knows how it will behave outside established lab tested conditions. Lots of people seem to like it in revolvers because it fouls less and produces higher velocities. I've never tried it in a revolver but did test it in a .36 caliber singleshot pistol. That pistol normally gives one inch groups at 25 yards with 15 grains of 3f Goex but scattered all over the paper with the same measure of 777 so I saw no reason to test further.

 

[rodwha]

Hogdgon's states the reason to reduce the load by 15% is to replicate a BP load. I wonder, were you to try ~12 grns, if you'd get similar groupings as you did with Goex.

I really like the 1863 Pocket Remington, but with a mere 15 grn max load and a tiny 50 grn RB I find it to be subpar for anything but shooting paper or water bottles. I want one, but not if it can't even protect against a dog or some such.

If one could safely use 15 grns of Triple 7 I'd think it might be enough to sway me into purchasing one in steel.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Reducing the load would not have made a nickles worth of difference, that gun shoots very well with about any load of Goex but is worthless with 777.
I played a bit with the Remington and didn't find much use for it. It's so tiny as to be difficult to handle, much smaller than the .31 Colt style, and the front sight blade is pretty much invisible. The photo shows it with an H&R .32 pocket pistol which is also tiny.

 

[Don]

Triple 7 can open up groups especially if using the same volume of powder you might use with real black or pyrodex. Reduced 777 loads are more accurate and I've had good luck with it in my 1860 army, 1851 .44 short barrel,1849 pocket colt and my single shot pistols. I like it for my revolvers cause it reduces cleaning time by almost half. I have noticed that in my .36's I have to go light on the charge or accuracy goes to pot especially with round ball. In my pocket colt 15 grains works well and that small charge isn't going to harm the gun even though the 777 is hotter. Keep experimenting with loads,you'll find one that works with your gun.

Don

 

[Wes/Tex]

Tests done some years ago now showed that the .32 revolvers had about the same killing capacity as a .22 Long Rifle round in a pistol...basically, it's a varmint load. And a small varmint at that! :haha:

 

[Poor Private]

Here is my take on triple 7. It is readily available in places like Wally world, Meijer(midwestern chain), most local gun shops. Price is usually more than a pound of Black. 25bucks in comparison to 20bucks. I can get more shots out of a pound of "Tiple 7" with the reduced loads. It isn't any good as a reenactor powder, you must compress it to work other wise it looks like a sparkler when you fire it out of a long gun. It creats just as big a cloud of smoke used in a revolver firing blanks(reenactor). People( non-shooters) are less afraid of a can sitting on a table that says 777 as compared to one that say Black Powder Explosive. People( my wife early on)are more worried about storing Black Powder than they are 777. Myself? I have several pounds of each type and use them both target shooting and hunting varmits.
Hey it don't matter to me as long as I get to shoot my guns, and both are viable powders to use.

 

[necchi]

"Remember to put a little less in than you normally would with BP, as 777 is a little hotter (15 to 20%)."

I continually come across statements such as this. When I've looked at Hogdgon's site it doesn't state such.

So what is the truth of the matter?

This is off the Loading Notes page on the web site for Triple 7;
"Triple Seven is a high energy product designed to provide the muzzleloading hunter with higher velocities when used in the same VOLUME as blackpowder. To duplicate a blackpowder load velocity using Triple Seven, you must decrease the powder charge by 15%"

And some more;
"Do not heavily compress powder charges."

Here's the link; http://www.hodgdon.com/loading.html

 

[Don]

Over compression in my experience leads to screwy performance. By that I mean wild swings in velocity and accuracy. Moderate compression will give consistant velocities and better accuracy.

Don

 

[rodwha]

From their loading notes:

Percussion Firearms: Select the proper charge from the loads listed in this brochure. Set powder measure as indicated. While holding the firearm vertically, slowly pour the measured charge of Triple Seven or Pyrodex into the barrel. Seat the projectile firmly against the powder .

I've asked them what exactly firmly meant, but never received a reply.

The part you copied about not heavily compressing the powder came from the subsection of loading in cartridges.

 

[Eljay]

I've been happy with it in a Pietta 1858 reproduction. I notice you're in California, which has a lot of regulations on real black powder - I think you'll find that it's a lot easier to stick with 777 until you should buy a flintlock, then you'll need to deal with the realities of the situation.

 

[wojciste]

Thanks Ely... I have Pyrodex and looking for an alternative. After coming from PA I am shocked at the regs on BP in CA. Funny 49 states do it one way and CA does it the other. And I see that everywhere here!!!!

 

[Zonie]

Your comment about heavily compressing 777 is true. They were speaking of cartridges where a loading press can exert a LOT of force and loaders of black powder cartridges commonly use this force to heavily compress black powder.

The loading lever on most C&B pistols is also capable of producing quite a heavy compressive load so, if we are speaking of a C&B pistol I think the Hodgdon warning is appropriate.

As for your being unable to find reference to the 15% powder reduction when using 777, here again is their statement.
The link given above in necchi's post will take you to the source.

"Triple Seven is a high energy product designed to provide the muzzleloading hunter with higher velocities when used in the same VOLUME as blackpowder. To duplicate a blackpowder load velocity using Triple Seven, you must decrease the powder charge by 15%. *See WARNING below."

 

[rodwha]

The loading of 777 in cartridges appears to me to require much less compression vs any other form of firearm. The wording is much different. I wish they'd explain what firm compression is.

"Triple Seven is a high energy product designed to provide the muzzleloading hunter with higher velocities when used in the same VOLUME as blackpowder. To duplicate a blackpowder load velocity using Triple Seven, you must decrease the powder charge by 15%."

"The owner's manual for your firearm should specify a maximum allowable load. Under no circumstances should this maximum be exceeded."

The only reason they state the load should be reduced is to replicate a BP load. What it says is not to exceed max load specified by the manufacturer. Were it so much more powerful than BP to the point of it being dangerous I'd think that portion would be worded different.

However I've noticed that Uberti states not to use any other powder but BP or Pyrodex.

"Only black powder or Pyrodex should be used in your cap and ball revolver. Use of any other powder can cause catastrophic damage to the revolver and possible injury to the shooter."

I find it ironic that they claim their metallurgy is superior to what it was then and that their firearms are stronger yet claim small charges and no powder stronger than BP/Pyrodex.

"Uberti recreations of historical firearms are accurate in every detail except one””they’re better than the originals. Made with stronger materials and modern machine tools, they are far more durable and accurate than any firearm from the era of Oliver Winchester and Samuel Colt."

I'd guess it's the lawyer thing, but wouldn't I be foolish to ignore their claim? I'd guess they are stronger as well. I've read of a fellow who has filled his Walker chambers with 777. But just because it works fine for a while doesn't mean it's not stressing the gun and setting you up for a catastrophe.

 

[BGRooster1]

rodwha,I have a pocket Remmie and use either T7 or 4F. In the small quantities used in revolvers it won't hurt anything.
They are fun and a better choice than a NAA revolver in many ways.

 

[Don]

If my revolver has a max load of 30 grains of real black then I would never load it with 30 grains of 777. Thirty grains of pyrodex maybe but not 777.

Don

 

[rodwha]

Though the wording makes me think it may be OK, because I don't know that I wouldn't either. I'd have to reduce a max load by the stated 15% to be safe and keep my pistol working for it's lifetime.

But I still have to wonder if it's necessary. I sent them a third email. Hopefully they'll respond...