Triple seven in flintlock

[Jay]

I once met an old timer at the Range who said he uses triple seven in this flintlock with no black powder but of course that day he didn’t have his flintlock and I’ve never heard that before I’ve heard of using a few grains or black powder and then triple seven but not just straight triple seven as the main charge is anybody doing this

 

[mooman76]

I've heard of others making the same claim with other sub powders. Don't know if it was factual or not. It would be a rare occurrence.

 

[Zonie]

I haven't tried triple 7 but I have shot Pyrodex in my flintlock without a black powder primer below it.
It did fire, maybe, once every 3 or 4 pan primes (with real black powder in the pan) so there's a slim chance that it might fire every time it's loaded.

On the other hand, based on my experience, it will misfire more often than not but if the shooter doesn't know how well a flintlock can work, he might just chalk the misfires up to it's being a flintlock. A lot of people expect the flintlocks to misfire.

 

[rdlowe]

There are instructions on a can of T7 to get it to reliably work in a flinter by using a few grains of BP as a booster charge. Disclaimer here is that I never tried it but I see from a google of “Triple 7 in a flintlock” several success stories on the ‘net.
Edit: I can’t see where anyone is using it *without* the BP booster charge with success. When I got my first musket several years ago I bought Pyrodex and T7 because I was new enough to muzzleloading not to know any better. Both products worked fine in my TC cap gun but I had no success getting them to reliably ignite in the pan of my Charleville. It would take several strikes and then it would take a measurable amount of time at that to light up. I thought the gun was defective until I figured out how to buy proper BP. Live and learn!

 

[tnlonghunter]

Serious question: seems the only real reliable way to get T7 or other subs to ignite in a flinter is with a BP sub-charge. I assume you would then have to measure out a small BP charge and dump it, then measure out the main charge.

So, what is the supposed benefit of this? Since you have to buy the real BP in order to make this work, why bother with the extra step of the sub?

 

[SDSmlf]

Was playing with 777 in a TC Firestorm flintlock a while back after hearing some were using in flintlocks with success. The Firestorm has a cone shape on the face of the breach plug and supposed to work with pellets - don’t know, never tried or wanted to try. It works great with BP, but not sure the cone has any measurable impact. Tried 777 mixed with real black powder (not recommended, you are on your own if you try) with no BP primer charge under it. Remember getting pretty good accuracy but ignition time was inconsistent and overall lazy at best. Then moved on to a 10-15 grain charge of BP under 777 and it seemed to work. Until the BP kicker pushed a load of 777 and a round ball out of bore without the 777 igniting. Took a few seconds to realize what happened with the nonexistent recoil and the sound of the loose 777 landing a few feet down range. Pretty much cured my curiosity and 777 flintlock testing was ‘suspended’.

 

[Nutnfancy]

A little info for those who don't know:

In the manual that came with my T/C Renegade titled 'Shooting Thompson / Center Black Powder Muzzleloading Firearms' it states and I quote, "Pyrodex does not ignite as easily as Black Powder and, consequently, it is not recommended for use in flint lock firearms. Flint locks require strong, positive ignition and should be charged and primed with Black Powder of the appropriate granulation only." Makes sense to me........

 

[Britsmoothy]

Prick the vent once loaded and then let some 4f enter the touch hole. There's your starter.
Maybe a gun with a generous vent it will work, in a pinch.

 

[AZbpBurner]

I've used several subs in flintlocks, but each had a kicker charge of black powder and black powder in the pan. I've also tried each without a kicker charge, all with zero ignition.
Based on my experience, I'd view claims of positive ignition using only subs as within the realm of BS.

 

[BillinOregon]

Oddly enough, a black powder substitute called Sannadex was briefly manufactured and sold in South Africa a dozen or so years ago, and apparently worked very, very well in flintlocks. So it can be done.

 

[Patrick Thomas]

...but why? More readily available? Easier to clean? Doesn’t smell as good? Kidding aside, it’s a serious question. I don’t know why traditional muzzleloader aficionados want use a substitute.

 

[Feltwad]

...but why? More readily available? Easier to clean? Doesn’t smell as good? Kidding aside, it’s a serious question. I don’t know why traditional muzzleloader aficionados want use a substitute.

I totally agree why do people who call themselves muzzle loaders want to use other than black powder .Yes it may be better to obtain but it is not traditional and if it ever turned out to been the only thing that would see me finishing shooting ,I will say it again it is not traditional
Feltwad

 

[B P Maniac Shooter]

Serious question: seems the only real reliable way to get T7 or other subs to ignite in a flinter is with a BP sub-charge. I assume you would then have to measure out a small BP charge and dump it, then measure out the main charge.

So, what is the supposed benefit of this? Since you have to buy the real BP in order to make this work, why bother with the extra step of the sub?

I'm with you.....that seems to be a lot of trouble, especially if you're out in the woods shooting from the pouch. The BP manufacturers makes it too easy these days to make ol' Betsy fire almost every time. .

 

[mooman76]

Thing is depending on where you live, it is, always readily available or easy to obtain. Allot of people that can get it easy don't seem to understand that. Don't get me wrong, I am all for using real black but I've been places it is difficult to near impossible to get.

 

[TreeMan]

Thing is depending on where you live, it is, always readily available or easy to obtain. Allot of people that can get it easy don't seem to understand that. Don't get me wrong, I am all for using real black but I've been places it is difficult to near impossible to get.

Real black powder is probably scarce in more locations now than it was years ago. It’s very easy to order it online and have it delivered to your door. I’m my area there were around five different places that sold it 20 years ago. Now there is one little gun shop and he wants $38 a pound for it. I’ll just order it before I pay that.

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

I have used Pyrodex both as a main charge and in the Pan. I grind small amounts for the pan as a primer. It is rare that the gun does not fire. When it does not its usually a dirty touch hole. I simply cannot understand what all the hooplah is about.....
And yes Pyrodex does get poured down the muzzle also......
When and if BP disappears and youre ready to quit I will buy your stuff and use Pyrodex in it.

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

It used to be $50 permit to store BP as a Dealer. In the wisdom of Legislators they increased it to $1500.
Many shop owners threw their hands in the air and said I just wont sell it any longer. How many pounds would you have to sell just to break even on permitting fees? Plus times have changed with new generations most have no interest.

 

[MSW]

and it's yet another way to suppress shootings sports ... makes money and discourages gun use.

 

[nkbj]

Passed up a "black rifle" TC Firestorm years ago for less than half price. Oh goofy me.

 

[SDSmlf]

Passed up a "black rifle" TC Firestorm years ago for less than half price. Oh goofy me.

The TC Firestorm flintlock I have is surprisingly accurate and has as fast ignition as any flintlock I own, at least in my opinion. But it is ugly. Stainless steel with a Tupperware stock. I believe all Firestorms had the QLA barrels, but I have had no issues with one, though I have had issues with other QLA barrels, a TC Big Bore being the worst.