Triple Seven..you owe yourself a 1lb

[Notchy Bob]

My experience with T7 and I shoot lots of it: it pours same as BP out of my horn. Looks a little like BP but maybe a little finer and a dark gray color. It smells "smoky" but not same as BP. Not as much smoke either it seems as BP. 50 grains packs a punch.
Cleans up easy with water or any BP cleaner, doesn't seem quite as dirty as Pyrodex. It cleans more like BP.

My two cents.

Thanks! That's what I needed to know.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[PastorB]

Here is MY experience with Triple 7, YMMV, starting with the good first. It does give additional fps, even over Swiss, using the same volume loads. I shoot over chronographs frequently, using various powders, real black and subs, and Triple 7 is the fastest. It seems to be very accurate, especially in revolvers, and I credit this to substantially reduced fouling. Triple 7 does clean quite easily, much more so than real black, and even more so than Pyro. Triple 7 is readily available most of the time.

Now the bad. It is expensive compared to Pyrodex, almost double the price in my area ($21 vs. $37 per. lb.). Real black, after paying hazmat fees, is almost as expensive as Triple 7. In revolvers using Triple 7, I have had zero issues in thousands of shots fired with ignition. However, in sidelocks, even those without a patent breech, I get hangfires after a few shots. That is remedied by a quick cleaning, then I am able to get several more shots before delayed ignition begins again. This is something I have never experienced with Pyro or real black.

Here are MY conclusions on Triple 7 use compared to other powders. Fast, clean and accurate. While I do get more fps, it has a lot more variance in fps, shot to shot compared to real black (Swiss or goex) with which I get remarkablely low extreme spreads. When I go hunting with a sidelock, I use Swiss to maximize my chance of going bang. I give up fps, which I could make up with more powder, to ensure reliable ignition. I have used pyrodex for 45 years, and it is harder to clean, but I have 4 decade year old barrels that have shot a lot of Pyro, and they look as good today as they did in the 70's and 80's. I really have no complaints with Pyro, and used it exclusively for many years (before my flintlock days) as before the internet, I just thought it was black powder. Just for info, Pyro P and Swiss 3f give identical velocities in every gun I have ever shot them both in, and Goex is lagging substantially behind. Not a complaint, just a fact of many thousands of rounds over a chrono. I am not against any powder, I shoot a lot of all of it. I use Triple 7 a lot in revolvers, but when my current supply is gone, I will not replace it due to cost, unless it is the only option available. If I am really earnest about making sure a gun goes off, I load with Swiss, even though I have had no issues with Pyro in caplocks. Sorry to ramble so long, just MY experiences.

 

[Okie Hog]

I have a can of American Pioneer "3f" that was unopened but apparently went bad, it's a solid clump in the can

Break up the clump and fire away. i bang the closed can against a post or whatever.

 

[Brokenbear]

I highly recommend when using Triple Seven to only buy the 2F .. I suspect some of the rifle shooters with ignition problems used 3F which has far fewer small grains.. just back the T7 2F down 6 to 8% by volume depending on rifle or pistol AND where you are on the power scale ..an 1860 Colt 20gr BP load I do 19gr T7
A .58 cal Zouave 80gr load would be 74gr in T7 2F
Hoppe #9 and 3 in 1 oil is all I clean with rifle or pistol

Bear

 

[Omahkapi'si]

Yup 2F.

 

[Omahkapi'si]

Yup 2F.

 

[S.Walker]

No triple 7 for me. Tried it and wasn't impressed. Had no real discernable smell to me. A bit odd. Pyrodex smelled off and ended up as fertilizer. Neither one smoked anywhere near enough for my liking. Only the original "Gun Powder" for this cowboy.

 

[Stantheman86]

This has been an interesting thread. I have no experience with Triple 7 whatsoever. I always figured it was like Pyrodex but with more energy. I have shot Pyrodex, and don't care for it. I have a twenty-year-old bottle of it that has probably clumped into a solid mass.

I understand that you can load a little less T7 than black powder or Pyrodex and get the same performance. Got that. However, I see some folks reporting the same cleaning regimen with T7 that they use for black powder, but if I understood correctly, the OP uses the same cleaning solvents and oils for T7 that he uses for smokeless. What works best, or does it matter?

Does T7 pour out of a horn like black powder? Does it smoke and stink like BP when it detonates? This is very important to someone who grew up shooting black powder.

Those sound like dumb questions, but seriously, I have no hands-on experience at all with Triple 7. I've seen the containers in stores, but I've never actually seen the powder itself. I am fortunate in that I've been able to keep enough real black powder on hand to keep me shooting. You learn to stock up when its available, in amounts realistically based on your anticipated needs. There is a difference between stocking up and hoarding. The Pyrodex was just an experiment. However, while there have always been periodic shortages of powder, primers, and caps, they appear to be occurring more frequently and lasting longer now. I expect I'll continue to shoot real black, but it's good to know what the options are.

So, if some of you patient gentlemen would answer my goofball questions, I would appreciate it.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

The T7 smells acrid and smokes white

I always just thought it was sulfur less Pyrodex. I never saw much of a difference

I use it all in my percussion revolvers but try to stay with real black in my rifles and muskets

If I have a choice I just use real BP.

 

[Stantheman86]

Break up the clump and fire away. i bang the closed can against a post or whatever.

I'm going to do that and shoot the can up in a Uberti 1858

 

[Brokenbear]

I highly recommend when using Triple Seven to only buy the 2F .. I suspect some of the rifle shooters with ignition problems used 3F which has far fewer small grains.. just back the T7 2F down 6 to 8% by volume depending on rifle or pistol AND where you are on the power scale ..an 1860 Colt 20gr BP load I do 19gr T7
A .58 cal Zouave 80gr load would be 74gr in T7 2F
Hoppe #9 and 3 in 1 oil is all I clean with rifle or pistol

Bear

Correction in one number and that is read the above but replace 2F with 3F as that is all I buy and use it from .31 Colt thru .58 Musketoon
I don't have a flinter but I would love to see a experiencde member do a work up with Triple Seven 3F in a flinter ..my money is on it will reliably go bang

Bear

 

[deerstalkert]

Correction in one number and that is read the above but replace 2F with 3F as that is all I buy and use it from .31 Colt thru .58 Musketoon
I don't have a flinter but I would love to see a experiencde member do a work up with Triple Seven 3F in a flinter ..my money is on it will reliably go bang

Bear

please make the check out to cash, and send it to my po box.
i had to pull the last charge i tried. never a flash in the pan in this particular rifle with Holy Black. after 6 attempts to get it to fire with t7 i pulled the load. suppose it could be just me, but my late shooting partner would have a 30% ftf with his cap lock when using t7. he gave me 2 lbs of it. 10 years ago. approximately 1.75 lbs still in the bottles. ymmv

 

[Brokenbear]

please make the check out to cash, and send it to my po box.
i had to pull the last charge i tried. never a flash in the pan in this particular rifle with Holy Black. after 6 attempts to get it to fire with t7 i pulled the load. suppose it could be just me, but my late shooting partner would have a 30% ftf with his cap lock when using t7. he gave me 2 lbs of it. 10 years ago. approximately 1.75 lbs still in the bottles. ymmv

I know T7 has ignition problems in some guns .. no question.. but I cannot find where 3F was the grade used and not 2F
If your experience was with 3F then you are the first for sure to document it
I am on the fringe of black powder shooters .. no body to split shipments with .. there is no BP on the shelf within many hours of me and thousands of other shooters who are on the outside or outer fringe who might enjoy our sport IF they can find a pound at a time powder that will work .. by no means am I or interested in stepping on traditional energy sources to muzzle loading shooters in any way period

Bear

 

[deerstalkert]

i must retract and refund. i just dug out my t7 and it is 2f. my memory is as bad as my shooting anymore! that and i misread your post where you had the 2f and 3f reversed.
i have made my own black powder for 60 years now and so i don't share the pain of those that can't buy it or find it.

 

[Brokenbear]

i must retract and refund. i just dug out my t7 and it is 2f. my memory is as bad as my shooting anymore! that and i misread your post where you had the 2f and 3f reversed.
i have made my own black powder for 60 years now and so i don't share the pain of those that can't buy it or find it.

Nothing to retract really ..we all get catawhompus from time to time just like initially I wrote 2F all the while thinking 3F..
You wouldn't of liked winning as I am a sore loser and generally pay my losses with bags of pennies

Bear

 

[deerstalkert]

i happen to collect pennies! among most every thing else according to my bride!

 

[Brokenbear]

i happen to collect pennies! among most every thing else according to my bride!

In your dreams old son they would all be new and worthless ..no 1909VDBS, steel war,2 strikes, Indian heads nor large cents for the likes of you!

Bear

 

[deerstalkert]

In your dreams old son they would all be new and worthless ..no 1909VDBS, steel war,2 strikes, Indian heads nor large cents for the likes of you!

Bear

Ah! a fellow numismatist!

 

[Notchy Bob]

Boys, I'm confused.

I looked at the Hodgdon website, and they recommend Triple Seven FFG for "...shotguns and rifles, 50-caliber and larger, as well as cartridges. FFG is also usable in muskets and large-bore pistols." They recommend Triple Seven FFFG "...for use in pistols and rifles of 50 caliber and smaller." That sounds simple.

However, in the posts above, I see where several folks have gotten their FF and FFF mixed up, with subsequent retractions and corrections. So what is the consensus? Do we just follow the Hodgdon recommendations, or do we use only FFG in everything, or FFFG in everything? Should we start a poll?

I have, and prefer, real black powder, generally speaking. However, I like to know what my options are, and it might be fun to try some Triple Seven. It is expensive (~$40 per pound), and I would just as soon get a single pound of the granulation that's best for my .50, .54, and .58 caliber rifles rather than a pound of each.

Notchy Bob

 

[TDM]

I have a couple of lbs of T7 (2F) that I used in a TC in-line that I haven’t shot in a long while. Guess I should at least try it. But, luckily, still have plenty of the real thing.

 

[jlatz]

I have used 777 in original Belgian and English shotguns for a long time. I use Ballistol for cleanup. The 777 patterns well.