Triple Seven..you owe yourself a 1lb

[Bobby MacAlphin]

Correction in one number and that is read the above but replace 2F with 3F as that is all I buy and use it from .31 Colt thru .58 Musketoon
I don't have a flinter but I would love to see a experiencde member do a work up with Triple Seven 3F in a flinter ..my money is on it will reliably go bang

Bear

Tried triple 7 in my flintlock and it went bang way slower than my Goex , will definitely be sticking to real black !

 

[Ninering62]

I make no bones about it, I’ll take T7 over real black 100% of the time. I use T7fff in the .40 sidelock & the ROA pistol & as a cheap plinking charge with cast conicals in the .45 inline to cut way back on the amount of BH 209 & T7ff in my .50 1:24 sidelock.
I got a lb or so of Goex FF & FFF that I’ll burn up in my BP 12ga but I’ll use T7ff in that too. I will never use Pyrodex powder or any type of pellets ever again though.

 

[Zapadach]

i must retract and refund. i just dug out my t7 and it is 2f. my memory is as bad as my shooting anymore! that and i misread your post where you had the 2f and 3f reversed.
i have made my own black powder for 60 years now and so i don't share the pain of those that can't buy it or find it.

I make my own as well.

 

[Brokenbear]

To address those I have confused T7 3F is the goto grade of Triple Seven for ME all calibers and here is why It works for ME.. (remember I reduce 6 to 8% volume to volume when I sub T7 for BP)
Think first in black powder ..
Chemically it is limited to peaking at a relatively low pressure (as is T7)
Devising a way to effectively dispense black powder up and down the power ranges from weak open top Colts to cannons became the system(by volume not weight) we have today from cannon grade to 4F in BP ..all of which indicate particle size.. (The sizing ALSO sets up what barrel length is needed to get the full energy effect the powder charge is intended to deliver)
Clearly then a measure by volume of 2F if it were physically weighed and one from the same volume of measure of 3F are weighed we will find more energy producing weight of material in the 3F than the 2F
Conversely smaller particulates represents MORE surface area to catch ignition hence T7 3f a better bet to get ignition as opposed to T7 2F
Again the only reason for this exercise is for us guys who do not have clubs and pals to share shipments and to give this fringe bunch of fellow shooters a chance to stay in the game ..
I know T7 3F shoots well and cleans nicely in all my percussion revolvers and rifles
I simply suggest an experienced flint locker try Triple7 3F to see if it will behave

BEAR

 

[Vtmountaindeerhunter]

I enjoy shooting with 777 .I have experienced almost nothing in way of misfire crud ring or delay fire. Shoots in my tc and cva side hammers and 777 fff in cap and ball revolvers with excellent results. I do love the real black powder but this stuff keeps me shooting more often. I had loaded up some .45 colt ammo with 777 fff and it probably to hot I didn't realize that it is not intended for reloading brass. The 777 ff is listed as a option to reloading

 

[Omega Vision]

So to not hijack another post about Pyrodex the question I have is this...
I think it has been established that Pyrodex is at least as corrosive if not more so than black powder...
Knowing this when I got back into traditional muzzle loading during the BP shortage the choice was Pyrodex or T7
I chose to restart with T7 ..
Revolvers were first with 3 Colts and all are fed with T7/3F and paper cartridge system ball and conical and have had zero misfires ..even with my home made caps still no ignition problems ..
Then came a couple of civil war reproduction rifles (musket cap fired) and again no ignition problems with T7 ..
I have just added a TC .54 Renegade that I have yet to shoot (it and Covid arrived at my house the same day) and it is presently set up for # 11 caps ..
So the TC is yet to be challenged with T7/3F but it may require a change over to musket caps to be reliable ignition wise ..so be it and here is why I will go to musket caps if need be ..
With Pyrodex I ruined a TC Renegade years ago on a 10 day elk hunt (weather turned nuts cold and no way to clean) and it was not a good feeling ..
With T7 I cannot find any evidence of any corrosive activity that differs from modern day powders ..
I clean the firearms with the same solvents n oil as I do unmentionables
Further I can do a quick wipe down and do the full "Monty cleaning" at my leisure hours or even days later ..
With the "not an emergency to clean" situation if I get off work early I can pop out and make some smoke a few hours and clean the following weekend ..so I am shooting far more than if I was using Black or P'dex..
Now I know the T7 container says "water cleanup" but it just is not so ..front stuffer shooters have cleaned with water since gun powder was invented and they just want to hear "clean just like you are used to.. clean with water"
I understand T7 is a bit more $$ than P'dex but it also takes less of it as volume for volume and it is stronger than Black or Pyrodex ..so the $$ difference is not as much as it first appears ... in fact I buy from my LGS T7/2F 1lb for a bit less than what I am seeing guys say they pay for shipped/hazmatted/powder ..
DO yourself a favor and buy a 1lb of T7 as it has proven at least to me.. to be gun friendly and clean up easy ..

Bear

T7 or Real Black works for me. Try to use as little as possible thou. 777 powder, when used in large volumes, can make a mess of your bore near the breech-end. You never want to load the 2nd shot with 777 powder, if you have hardened 777 powder residue still remaining in the bore. That can leave a small airspace when seating the next load and create a bulging bore when fired.

Do not mess with large volumes of 777 powder in a closed breech system - especially if those volumes aren't really needed. Gotta' know your limits when loading that 2nd or 3rd shot, without the beneft of a more thorough cleaning. Bore swabbing between shots is fine. But firing 777 powder repeatedly, needs to be done correctly and safely. This powder can harden more easily than most others.

Use with caution.and check those nipples for crusty blockages more often. Clear those nipple holes more frequently.

 

[Dale Allen Raby]

T7 now costs nearly $40.00/pound! It has it's uses and works well enough for some guns, but it (and pretty much EVERYTHING else these days) is just way too expensive. Thank you Washingtonians!

 

[Dale Allen Raby]

Been reading all these posts about T7 in traditional side-lock guns and thought about it for a while. I'd been using 7 grains of actual black powder as an ignition charge under my T7 loads because I was getting misfires with just T7.... BUT I was using 2f T7. My horn is now filled with 3f T7, so I thought I would give it a try. To my surprise, my 70 grain load under a Hornady Great Plains .50 caliber 410 grain HBSP fired upon my first attempt with noticeable less recoil and hit my target at thirty yards.

Maybe I will have to investigate this further....

 

[Togo]

Correction in one number and that is read the above but replace 2F with 3F as that is all I buy and use it from .31 Colt thru .58 Musketoon



I don't have a flinter but I would love to see a experiencde member do a work up with Triple Seven 3F in a flinter ..my money is on it will reliably go bang







Bear

I put 3f 777 in my flint, nothing but delay fires. My flints only get Goex. Triple 7 Works great in my percussions guns.

 

[Stantheman86]

I've fired close to 100 Minie balls this week using 777 "2f" , 50 at a clip per range session with no wiping. No problem, I just give the Minie a firm tap with the rod to compress the powder and make sure the bullet is past the slight "crud ring"

777 must be firmly compressed. If I forget and gently seat a bullet or don't firmly give it a couple thumps, I get hinky ignition or that weird "baBoom" secondary ignition thing.

It's expensive but it's consistent and accurate. And cleanup is a snap

I own and use it all, Real Black, 777, Pyrodex, it doesn't matter, I have rifles and revolvers that use it all and some rifles are designated as "real black only " and some are "subs only" it depends on how each one does or what purpose I have for each gun.

 

[Ben Meyer]

I've never shot anything but real BP in my traditional muzzleloaders. I do have a scoped unmentionable, that I've never shot anything but Pyrodex pellets out of. I haven't taken it out of the closet in 4 years and will probably sell it soon. But, other than smelling like a skunks butthole, I got excellent accuracy out of Pyrodex pellets, zero ignition issues, and it was no more time consuming to clean than real BP.

That said, I could buy a pound of 2f 777 just to see how it runs in my perc Hawken, but why? If it was relatively easy for you to get real BP, would you still buy 777? It's no cheaper, I find it even pricier than Swiss BP.

 

[Loja man]

I've never shot anything but real BP in my traditional muzzleloaders. I do have a scoped unmentionable, that I've never shot anything but Pyrodex pellets out of. I haven't taken it out of the closet in 4 years and will probably sell it soon. But, other than smelling like a skunks butthole, I got excellent accuracy out of Pyrodex pellets, zero ignition issues, and it was no more time consuming to clean than real BP.

That said, I could buy a pound of 2f 777 just to see how it runs in my perc Hawken, but why? If it was relatively easy for you to get real BP, would you still buy 777? It's no cheaper, I find it even pricier than Swiss BP.

I think availability is the key to Tripple7 or other substitutes. I can buy triple seven in the town I live closest to . Most of my work in thier. It’s convenient. I can buy real black an hour away, which really isn’t that far. I think the price difference to gas cost pays off if I can buy bulk when I buy real black.

 

[Stantheman86]

I've never shot anything but real BP in my traditional muzzleloaders. I do have a scoped unmentionable, that I've never shot anything but Pyrodex pellets out of. I haven't taken it out of the closet in 4 years and will probably sell it soon. But, other than smelling like a skunks butthole, I got excellent accuracy out of Pyrodex pellets, zero ignition issues, and it was no more time consuming to clean than real BP.

That said, I could buy a pound of 2f 777 just to see how it runs in my perc Hawken, but why? If it was relatively easy for you to get real BP, would you still buy 777? It's no cheaper, I find it even pricier than Swiss BP.

I would still buy both

777 burns clean and is very accurate

I like it in percussion revolvers, they can run almost all day with no lube or wads on 777 3f

It's not historically inaccurate, per se, 777 is more or less a tweaked and modified version of the "semi smokeless" powders that have been around from the 1860s-1900s including the powder the US Ordnance Dept used in the 1890s for Trapdoor Cartridges. None of this stuff is new

I have been shooting a lot of 777 and I have plenty of real blackpowder. 777 has just been a convenient choice recently in the guns I have used it in and it's a snap to clean up.

 

[Brokenbear]

I've never shot anything but real BP in my traditional muzzleloaders. I do have a scoped unmentionable, that I've never shot anything but Pyrodex pellets out of. I haven't taken it out of the closet in 4 years and will probably sell it soon. But, other than smelling like a skunks butthole, I got excellent accuracy out of Pyrodex pellets, zero ignition issues, and it was no more time consuming to clean than real BP.

That said, I could buy a pound of 2f 777 just to see how it runs in my perc Hawken, but why? If it was relatively easy for you to get real BP, would you still buy 777? It's no cheaper, I find it even pricier than Swiss BP.

The entire discussion is not to help sell T7.. but to inform folks that 3F T7 (not 2F)when holy black availability is not easy available ..function well in many if not most weapons
Price of T7 actually closer to Swiss than it appears as T7 is hotter than Swiss by approximately 6/8%
And for guys who don’t have a hooked breech system T7 is a gift from heaven as I find it cleans up with simple Hope’s #9

Bear

 

[Ben Meyer]

Brokenbear, why 777 3f and not 2f? I generally shoot 2f out of my .50cals, but have shot 3f. 80gr 2f and 70gr 3f hut about the same in my guns. Does 2f 777 NEED 209 primers or musket caps to go off?

 

[Bobby44]

Substitute and real BP talk always gets my yapper going. My summer home is a long trip and real is not always available. So I pack what I think I will need/use. Over time I have become less adventurous and use the real thing in my flinters. It just seems smoother and I do not want to fool with testing anymore. The sidelocks and inlines get T7. When one of my sons comes by and is low I always say "well, all I got is T7!" The wheel guns and the boys 45 colts get T7 as well. Things have just settled out that way over time. As for cost... a couple of dollars will not make a difference in my lifestyle.

 

[Brokenbear]

Brokenbear, why 777 3f and not 2f? I generally shoot 2f out of my .50cals, but have shot 3f. 80gr 2f and 70gr 3f hut about the same in my guns. Does 2f 777 NEED 209 primers or musket caps to go off?

Well it is a surface area improvement in favor of 3F ..there is a lot more surface area (smaller grains more of them) on 50 grains of 3F for a hot spark to catch than than there is surface area of 2F at 50 grains .. think wood camp fire .. start with kindling then chunks
I dare say even in Holy black there are many shooters who have converted to 3F across all calibers rifle n pistol
Additionally 3f is quicker to burn so less is likely to burn outside the chamber/barrel so.. you can use a little less grains with 3F vs 2F black to black comparisons.. black to T7 reduce T7 6% by volume as it has more energy chemically
Primers ..there are some guns that have horrible flash channels from the nipple to the powder chamber and need all the help they can get .. personally I have never encountered a gun that hat to have 209’s
It does make sense to use a hot percussion cap (magnum) in some cases .. also .. know this.. if you do have a gun tuff to light off my next step would be to convert nipple to 4 wing musket cap which compared to a #11 cap is like comparing a 22 short to a mini mag long rifle .. the musket cap is hot hot
And to my knowledge during all the percussion caps shortages .. 4 wing musket caps have always been available during the shortages

Bear

 

[Erwan]

Something I don't quite understand...
We have a shortage of black powder here in Absurdistan. I managed to get my hands on two books of T7 3Fg and tested and tried them. In revolvers and pistols, this propulsion is much too soft and far behind Swiss and French powder, I can swear that I found no pleasure in shooting with this powder: it is very smooth but without any nervousness. It's just because of the shortage of BP and caps that I used this...
I tested it with a long gun, of course not with flint, and the same thing: at equal volume, there is no sensation comparable to black powder, but the shooting is more regular and with fewer "flyers"...

Did I forget to do something? Should I increase the volume load compared to real black powder, since with the same volume it is like shooting with a lack of powder or 1Fg?

 

[Brokenbear]

Something I don't quite understand...
We have a shortage of black powder here in Absurdistan. I managed to get my hands on two books of T7 3Fg and tested and tried them. In revolvers and pistols, this propulsion is much too soft and far behind Swiss and French powder, I can swear that I found no pleasure in shooting with this powder: it is very smooth but without any nervousness. It's just because of the shortage of BP and caps that I used this...
I tested it with a long gun, of course not with flint, and the same thing: at equal volume, there is no sensation comparable to black powder, but the shooting is more regular and with fewer "flyers"...

Did I forget to do something? Should I increase the volume load compared to real black powder, since with the same volume it is like shooting with a lack of powder or 1Fg?

Your results if I understand your explanation correctly are that volume for volume the 777 3F you have IS NOT as powerful as the same amount of Swiss or French Black powder ??.....
That is OPPOSITE of our results in the US ..
FRESH 777 3F compared to Swiss Black Powder 3F volume for volume ..we reduce the 777 charge by 6%
It would make me think your 777 is out of date or has been stored poorly or container not sealed properly once open as 777 is definitely more energetic than Black Powder

Bear

 

[Erwan]

Your results if I understand your explanation correctly are that volume for volume the 777 3F you have IS NOT as powerful as the same amount of Swiss or French Black powder ??.....
That is OPPOSITE of our results in the US ..
FRESH 777 3F compared to Swiss Black Powder 3F volume for volume ..we reduce the 777 charge by 6%
It would make me think your 777 is out of date or has been stored poorly or container not sealed properly once open as 777 is definitely more energetic than Black Powder

That's it, not powerful enough or too "linear", softer than Swiss or French powder, I feel like I'm shooting with a powder with too big a grain size when it's a 3Fg.
All my loads are like with black powder including the volumetric dose: same weapons, same bullets, same patches, same lube, and same caps.
I don't think the T7 was that old or poorly stored since it was purchased here .
This store has a very large flow of powder and the stock is regularly renewed (out of stock for four days for the T7) ...