trophy hunting

[renovato]

I will go out of my way not to harvest a trophy animal if I have lesser bucks to select from. I do this for two reasons.

First off, I'm a meat hunter who appreciates the experience more than the antlers, and I prefer the trophy animal to go to someone more likely to appreciate it as a trophy.

Secondly, the whole "sport" part of hunting is a bit of a turnoff to me. It smacks of aristocracy where hunting is a rich man's "game" rather than everyman's way of life. Only the very lucky, or very wealthy got to hunt "the king's land" and everyone else was a poacher.

I mean no offense to those trophy hunters out there, but my philosophy on hunting is just different. I hunt as a way of experiencing what our forefathers and ancestors did. To be in touch with my past and share a bit of the life of family members that I never got to meet.

As hard as a tag is to get for some species here, I can understand why it became a sport. If I had to go through the raffle process, I'd want to make the hunt of a lifetime out of it if I got lucky on the draw too.

I might would pay big money for a guided hunt to go take a trophy in Africa or something, but I'm not about to go that route for a deer or elk. That's just not how it was meant to be.

 

[Slamfire]

I cured myself of huntin' horns in the Yukon, when they told me the price for flyin' a nice set of caribou antlers to Los Angeles. :shocked2: Then I got to thinkin' where'd I put the danged thing anyway. :shake:

 

Sadly this is the way what some would call "hunting" is going. I have a few young friends in their late 20's and early 30's and all they want is the bull of the woods. They'll shoot a doe or lesser buck towards the end of the season but it's a last ditch effort just to have some venison to eat. It certainly isn't the essence of hunting to me. By the same token I have a good friend who is 64 or 65 and Jim is a trophy hunters trophy hunter. He hunts at least 8 hours a day during the season and is watching and paying attention on his farm all year long. He's taken some very nice bucks and believe me he is a woodsman. It's what Jim does and if he scores he's a happy man. If he doesn't he's a very grateful man to have been able to spend the time doing something he truly loves. Jim is a remarkable man in many aspects.

I've taken one nice deer and enjoy seeing the head on my wall. I remember the morning I got him every time I see it. This past Thursday afternoon I took a 10 pointer but he was pretty skinny, his antlers that is. I'd guess him a 3 yr. old and he might score 100-110 and I don't care. I stalked him thru a forest where the ground is covered 6 in. deep in oak leaves and shot him at about 30 yards after he passed less than 20 feet from me. HE was a trophy....as would it be had it been a forkhorn or a doe. I met him on his terms and beat him at his game. THAT'S hunting to me.

I sincerely believe what some call hunting has become enitirely too high tech and too geared toward "bigger, better, more, faster" and for what...bragging rights? Where are the woodsmen today? I consider myself a woodsman but many men my age, (I'm 53), couldn't tell you what kind of tree their stand is in and certainly can't hunt from the ground even with their scent blocking suits, scnet covering sprays, GPS, grunt call, doe bleat call, rattling antlers, range finder, BDC scope and God Himself only knows what else. One of my young friends told me you couldn't get a nice buck without all that stuff. He honestly didn't believe me when I told him I shot my most recent buck at 30 yards and he'd been within 20 feet of me. As with many of you I did that with an open sighted flintlock shooting a PRB during center fire rifle deer season. ML season starts next Saturday and I don't believe I'll take a doe as I know there have been several killed on ours and neighboring places. If it's like last year and I see 12 in one group I will!...and she will be a trophy as I will have taken her in the same way as the buck. Sorry I got so longwinded.

Flinch, they just don't get hunting. Killing they understand, but hunting as most of us who use primitive weapons know it is beyond their comprehension.

Vic

 

[ossabaw]

One of the great things about primitive hunting is that any game taken is rewarding. Sitting in the woods, smelling the smells and hearing the sounds are rewarding to those of us who take the time to learn how to shoot traditional bp firearms. Some people just have to kill something. They have to have something to measure. They need a score like in golf. Come to think of it, golf is very important, it keeps a lot of the rifraf out of the woods and off the water.

 

[Bountyhunter]

The TV shows I like to watch are the ones on that concentrate on management of the herd. We have managed our deer herd for almost 15 years now, and the result is more deer, and bigger deer.

On the subject of trophy bucks, we always strive to take out each year, the oldest and largest bucks in the herd. The white tail buck begins to loose fertility at something like six years of age. It is almost certain that by 8, he is shooting blanks and can no longer impregnate a doe, he is however in the prime of his size and strength and will whip the younger fertile bucks and lower the fawn yield. Taking out the big old bucks, allows for all the does to become pregnant from the younger bucks, a lot of whom are carrying the old alpha bucks genetics. Next year, another big buck will become alpha buck and the next year, I will hang him.

Taking inferior bucks out of the breeding pool and preventing them from breeding seriously improves your herd. Spike bucks never become anything other than ratty bucks passing on inferior genetics. Fork horns are babies (1-1/2 yrs old) and are never shot, but are allowed to mature and become bigger bucks. 3x3's often never mature to amount to anything and we give them away to needy families as management bucks. A typical buck in our herd now will run 150+, and most are 5x5's as we have managed out the 4x4 genetics. The good bucks will go 170 or so. We run a cattle ranch, not a game farm, but we manage our deer herd the same as we manage our cattle herd.

We only kill does when it is necessary to control population. Only a doe can have a baby, and if the doe population gets down then the fawn yield will be down and the population numbers will suffer. If you have 100 does and 100 bucks, you will likely have 100 babies. If you kill off all but 50 of the bucks, you will still have 100 babies, if you kill off all but 10 bucks, you will still have 100 babies, but if you kill off fifty does, you will only have 50 babies, no matter how many bucks you have.

 

Bountyhunter, I don't know where you're located but here, after does have their first baby, the next year they usually have twins if they're healthy. I'm not about to say your numbers are skewed for where you live but the math doesn't work here.

Great job of managing the deer. Good huntin'!

Vic

 

[KyFlintlock]

It is just "getting out and about" that matters! Time spent outside!!!

wess

 

[rabjr]

Bountyhunter, I don't know where you're located but here, after does have their first baby, the next year they usually have twins if they're healthy. I'm not about to say your numbers are skewed for where you live but the math doesn't work here.

Yeah those 100 Does would turn into 200 + deer here for sure.

 

[Slamfire]

I guess you could say I'm into euthanasia, I'm lookin' fer them over-the-hill bucks that have seen their best days. Their teeth are wore out, they ain't interested in does any more, and would rather sleep than fight. Their antlers are just shadows of their onetime glory, cause they ain't got the energy to grow 'em big anymore. I 'spect I fit that description too. :rotf:

 

[jethro224]

Every critter I ever shot was a trophy to me. I still have every rack from every buck that I ever shot too. And pics of all but 2 does.

I usually shoot a doe or 2 every year. I can't eat more than that. My family doesn't care for deer meat altho I love it myself. My wife won't eat or cook it.

I love to hunt. Period. I love hunting more than just for killing a deer. If I shot the first deer that I get a chance to, I wouldn't get to hunt near as much. So I have a set of personal rules that I try to follow.

Here we get 3 1/2 months of bow season. I don't shoot does during the part of bow season that falls before gun season unless there are circumstances that call for it such as a wounded deer, etc. If I don't get a deer during gun season, anything goes for late bow. I won't shoot a buck that is smaller than my best with a bow. I pass a lot of small bucks up.

I get at least 2 gun tags every year. Same rule applies for smaller bucks but I'm gonna have to change that now 'cause I just shot a monster this year. Now it's gonna be just mature bucks.

I hope for a good buck but will shoot a nice size doe for the meat. If I do shoot a doe, the buck tag is reserved for big bucks only. If I have more than one buck tag, the second one is for MONSTER bucks only. I take home a lot of unfilled tags.

By sticking to these personal rules I have taken some good bucks. And I've watched tons of small bucks walk by. Sometimes within a few feet. There's only one sure way to grow big bucks. That is to NOT SHOOT the small bucks.

I used to drive my huntin' buddies nuts by telling them stories about the little 6 pointers that I let walk by at close range. They all thought I should shoot 'em when I get the chance before somebody else does.

I told 'em that maybe somebody else will shoot 'em, maybe they won't, but if I shoot 'em they will never live to be big bucks. And does are good eatin'! I've only gone 2 years out of 15 without venison.

At first my buddies thought I was off my rocker. Then they started noticing that I got bigger bucks than them. Some of those guys started letting the little ones walk too. Now we see way more big bucks than we used too. You need all three- genetics, nutrition and AGE to grow trophy size bucks.

Nothing wrong with trophy hunting when it's done right by real people in real natural surroundings. Nothing is real about those tv hunting shows. They skip all the long hours of not seeing deer. The deer they do get are pre-scouted/patterned by some other guy who you never see on tv.

If you and I had big piles of sponsor money we could pay for those guys to do all of our hunting for us so we could shoot lots of trophy deer on camera too. But them it wouldn't be hunting anymore for me.

 

[bramble]

You never know who's watching. I have a good friend from out of state, a non-hunter, non-firearms person. For years has been telling me about his neighbor who has several hundred acres, a carefully managed herd, and is a trophy hunter (but who lets no meat go to waste). When his son unexpectedly expressed a desire to hunt, he called me. He knows I won't pass up a huge buck, but he knows that my joy is in the process more than the outcome. He's also aware that my two biggest trophies are the first deer bagged by my daughters (a doe for one and a 4 point for the other). His hunter friend is just as safe, just as ethical, and never wastes meat. The point is not me and the way I approach hunting, but that there is a definite perception that the public has of how we go about what we do.

bramble

 

[Bountyhunter]

I'm up about 500 miles NW of you, Vic. You see a doe with twins every so often but that wasnt the point I was makin. Shooting down your bucks can seriously affect your genetics, but shooting down your does seriously affects your "calf crop".

 

[Bountyhunter]

Swamp Rat,

Then in the management scheme of things in your area, it is probably wise to thin the doe herd, as the population is controlled that way. However, the thinning of the buck herd needs to be in the old bucks and let your young genetics develop.

 

[wolfers]

I'll offer that some of the best and most enjoyed hunts I have had ended in a doe harvested. Nothing is more exciting then sneaking through the woods and peaking down the side of a hill and seeing deer feeding that you have gotten close enough to to shoot. Don't get me wrong. If there are doe and buck and a buck is legal, that is the one I will go for.

The most memorable hunt I ever had was tracking 4 deer. I hadn't seen them but I knew the tracks were fresh. It was late in the season and all the deer had done the usual dissappearing act. There was snow on the ground. I followed them for several miles and finally peered down over the side of the hill and there they were on a bench feeding. I shot a nice doe. By the way I have also taken some very nice buck which is also rewarding, but that hunt in mid Decmeber was the most rewarding.

I just love being out there seeing all the wildlife, smelling the woods, feeling the crispness of the weather and being a part of all. Doesn't really matter if I drag out a deer or not. I am just happy that I can take part in the process.

 

[wire]

I would have to say that of all the hunting shows on the outdoor chanel the only one that dosent concentrate on just trophy animals is Ted Nugents Spirit of the Wild. I really liked the one where he starts off shooting two small does with his bow and then explains why it needed to be done that they were small for that time of year and if allowed to remain in the herd they would breed and result in even smaller animals the next season. And continues on saying that hes sure someone will complain about taking what he called fawns but as he said a deer is a deer.

 

[barebackjack]

Hunting shows are worst things that could have happened to hunting. They make the general public believe that all hunters are all about the antlers. They have also skewed what alot of guys hunt for. Ten years ago I knew alot more guys who just meat hunted than now, people think that if the guys on TV are doing it, they should to. Well, anybody can shoot a 170 class buck with a high power rifle when hes in a 40 acre enclosure.

Our hunting and management style is much like Bountyhunters. I like antlers, im not ashamed to say it, and I will hunt for a trophy animal as long as I can. Sometimes I take one, sometimes I dont. But I also believe any deer is a trophy. But for me, the thing that really gets me going is a good set of antlers. Everybodies different.

I shoot everything with a ML'er, or bow. I shoot my regular gun tag usually with a ML'er. This tag I usually reserve for a "cull" buck, either a spike, or a older deer that just isnt showing potential. And I know my deer. We hunt our land, and were out there watching all year. Its kidna fun, you get to see them grow up. I have shed sets from one bucks entire life, yearling to his death as a 5 year old.
I had one guy get me riled up just the other day, he was bashing "rack" hunters. Than he goes on to contradict himself saying he shot a little 4x4, but hes just a meat hunter. :yakyak: Ya right.

Has anyone seen that show Flyway Highway? Its not big game, but it shows the image some of these "hunting" shows portray. These guys are shooting ducks and geese, well, when the actions slow, they were throwing dead ducks up in the air and shooting them repeatedly. Now, you tell me how much of that duck is left after theyve done this two or three times. Hunting shows = bad image for hunting.

By the way, theres nothing better than filling your doe tags with some tasty tenders.....doefawns!!! As teddy boy said, a deers a deer.

 

[Slamfire]

Swamp Rat,

Then in the management scheme of things in your area, it is probably wise to thin the doe herd, as the population is controlled that way. However, the thinning of the buck herd needs to be in the old bucks and let your young genetics develop.

I believe it has been proven that some young buck just don't have the genetics necessary to become trophy deer. These ought to be culled from the herd, just to strengthen the gene pool. I will agree that you have to keep the buck/doe ratio optimum, or the good bucks will overwork themselves durin' the rut, makin' it much less likely they will survive the winter. :v

 

Bountyhunter..

I agree with most of what you're saying. I wsan't really trying to make a point, just that deer management is going to be different in various areas. I know it's certainly different here in the Ozarks than it is even 120 miles north of me.

Everything you mentioned matters but where you are determines how much each thing matters. Here in the Ozarks it's mostly a grocery issue. In north Missouri, in many areas, it's a deer density issue. Genetics are important everywhere.

If you're 500 mi. NW of me I assume that means somewhere in south-central Nebraska. I don't know how many times I went thru there on I-80 on my way to and from where we used to live in Wyoming. Yours is very different country from down here in the Ozarks. Management goals will be similar but methods will necessarily be different.

My oldest son lives in Omaha so I get to Nebraska fairly regularly. I always enjoy my trips up there.

Vic

 

[Napper]

I get a lot of heat form the guys that I work with because I take the first deer that I see doe or buck I just like the way they taste. This year I am going to use a bow that I made with arrows that I picked and made with stome points should be a real fun If I pull it off will go back to using my muzzle loader well good hounting tom

 

[oneshot]

Sadly this is the way what some would call "hunting" is going. I have a few young friends in their late 20's and early 30's and all they want is the bull of the woods. They'll shoot a doe or lesser buck towards the end of the season but it's a last ditch effort just to have some venison to eat. It certainly isn't the essence of hunting to me. By the same token I have a good friend who is 64 or 65 and Jim is a trophy hunters trophy hunter. He hunts at least 8 hours a day during the season and is watching and paying attention on his farm all year long. He's taken some very nice bucks and believe me he is a woodsman. It's what Jim does and if he scores he's a happy man. If he doesn't he's a very grateful man to have been able to spend the time doing something he truly loves. Jim is a remarkable man in many aspects.

I've taken one nice deer and enjoy seeing the head on my wall. I remember the morning I got him every time I see it. This past Thursday afternoon I took a 10 pointer but he was pretty skinny, his antlers that is. I'd guess him a 3 yr. old and he might score 100-110 and I don't care. I stalked him thru a forest where the ground is covered 6 in. deep in oak leaves and shot him at about 30 yards after he passed less than 20 feet from me. HE was a trophy....as would it be had it been a forkhorn or a doe. I met him on his terms and beat him at his game. THAT'S hunting to me.

I sincerely believe what some call hunting has become enitirely too high tech and too geared toward "bigger, better, more, faster" and for what...bragging rights? Where are the woodsmen today? I consider myself a woodsman but many men my age, (I'm 53), couldn't tell you what kind of tree their stand is in and certainly can't hunt from the ground even with their scent blocking suits, scnet covering sprays, GPS, grunt call, doe bleat call, rattling antlers, range finder, BDC scope and God Himself only knows what else. One of my young friends told me you couldn't get a nice buck without all that stuff. He honestly didn't believe me when I told him I shot my most recent buck at 30 yards and he'd been within 20 feet of me. As with many of you I did that with an open sighted flintlock shooting a PRB during center fire rifle deer season. ML season starts next Saturday and I don't believe I'll take a doe as I know there have been several killed on ours and neighboring places. If it's like last year and I see 12 in one group I will!...and she will be a trophy as I will have taken her in the same way as the buck. Sorry I got so longwinded.

Flinch, they just don't get hunting. Killing they understand, but hunting as most of us who use primitive weapons know it is beyond their comprehension.

Vic

Hey Vic season starts Friday Got a couple Skin Head Tags left.

oneshot