trouble shooting

[swank]

While out shooting the other day, I had a total of four hammer drops where the pan did not ignite.

I was using the same english black flints that I have used in the past without any problems at all. In fact when I do everything right, wipe the frizzen, sharp flint etc. I have confidence that gun will go bang instantly. (This experience, however cut into that confidence a little.)

After having this happen twice inconsistantly I initially thought that the flint might be getting dull, so I knapped, but still had it happen twice more after a few intermittent shots with no problems. Now after changing out the flint, I had no further problems for the remaining 10 shots that I had time to take.

The flint seemed to be the variable that was causing problems, but my question is could a flint that otherwise appeared to look normal and sharp be the reason for my problem or is there something more other problem I might have to worry about. Can the individual uniqueness of each flint cause a lock to be finicky over how consistant it produces a spark from one flint versus another? Hopefully I'm just worrying too much, but just wondered if there was something else I had not thought of.

Thoughts?

Swank

 

[musketshooter]

The flint has probably scraped off the hardened surface on the frizzen. Re-case harden the frizzen. Commercially hardened frizzens do not last forever.

 

[amccall]

I have found that some flints last longer than others and without modifing the flints, some do strike better than others. Modifiying I mean, have you grinded the top of the flint flat so that all of your flints will be striking the frizzen at the same angle and be consistant with each other?
I have found that even after grinding them flat, that some do spark better than others. I guess it is due to the type of minerals and make up of the flint that does that. All we can do is try to control the things that we can and accept the rest. Also here in OH the humidity does effect things too. I use %99 alcohol to wipe things off to take the water off the frizzen, pan and flint, this helps also.eace:

 

[Birddog6]

Reworking the frizzen is the Last thing you want to do, as most guys don't actually have a frizzen problem. (IMHO)

I would simply change the flint & see if that is the problem. You don't specify what lock it is so I can't help on any points in that aspect.

Of the dozens upon dozens of rifles I have owned & all of them I have built, I have had One lock that had to have the frizzen reworked, just one...... And I have over 5000 shots on my original GPR & original lock and it still sparks good. Most of the time when people are rehardening frizzens & etc, it is usually (not always) but usually a lack of knowing how to make the flock perform, not a frizzen problem. Sometimes it is a spring problem. It is quite common to hear of a newbie having a problem with a lock & the first thing they want to do is rework the frizzen...... Sometimes ya hear of them wanting to rework them & they have not shot the rifle yet ! ha ha ! (never have figured out the reasoning on that)

Try a different flint.
Use Tom Fuller Black English Flints. (October Country)
Use REAL Black Powder 3 or 4F in the pan.
Try the flint bevel Up, then bevel Down, & be sure it is tight.
Make sure you are using the correct size of flint for that lock.
Make sure the frizzen wiped of all oil before firing, then wiped of all fouling after a shot. Wet the tip of a rag in your mouth & wipe the Frizzen, then the bottom of the Flint, then wipe the Pan out. Then wip them again with the dry end of a rag.

Hope this helps......

:results:

 

[Tom Curran]

Does your frizzen show a groove horizontally where the flint first strikes?
If so, it should be smoothed and re-hardened.

Try sparking the lock in dim light. Do you get sparks? What color are they? White( frizzen too hard) Red(frizzen too soft)

Where do the sparks hit in relation to the pan? Repostion the flint so that the majority of the sparks hit the center of the pan. Bevel up/bevel down/ how far out of the jaws. Record this flint position.

I'm interested to know what you find out.

 

[musketman]

Could there have been any oil or residue on the frizzen and/or flint?

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Could not agree more with your take on the issue.

 

[silverfox]

Musketman: I think you have the problem solved. Said gun was fired several times then stopped sparking. After knapping got its spark back. Sounds like crud on the bottom of flint. The knapping cleaned the edge of the flint. Birddog said it right, clean the pan, the frizzen, have a sharp flint, and clean the bottom of the flint also. If the gun was working and you do all the above it will work.
Fox :thumbsup: :imo:

 

Agree with BD 6 , I have been shooting the same frizzen since 1989 without any re hardening . The flint gods do some strange things , I have put on a beautiful new flint , got maybe 2 or 3 falls and had problems . Others I have pounded till they look like a piece of coal. If you are consistant in your approach , I think it was just "one of those flints"
good luck :hatsoff:

 

[Stumpkiller]

I'm with Birddog6, too.

Not being a metalurgist and lacking the equipment available to the pros (like a thermostatically controlled metal oven), I figure I'm as apt to mess one up. Especially if it's a Siler, Chambers or L&R. Rehardening is a last ditch effort if it fails the file test (that is, if my Grobet files leave marks on the face with light pressure).

Flints are almost like wood in their natural differences. They have a grain pattern, and there are incursions in their formation that change the result. I pre-shoot every flint that I carry in my hunting pouch to make sure I have no "duds" in the bag. Most often, I seem to get the occasional shatter as opposed to a poor sparker, but they do come along. It can also be due to the shape of the top/bottom that makes a "bad" flint. Humpies can have a bad face angle and some have a decised side-to-side twist that makes uneven strikes. An overly thick flint leather will allow it to move during the down-scrape, hurting sparkability(?).

Wiping the frizzen occasionally with 91% alcohol will remove any oils, and more frequent wiping the frizzen, flint and pan with a piece of cotton will do wonders.

Never oil or wax the face of a frizzen when cleaning a flintlock. Better a rusty frizzen than an oily one.

 

[Rebel]

Also, i haven't seen it said, but wipe the bottom of the frizzen(the pan cover). Crud builds up on it too and can cause problems if not cleaned off.

 

[doverdog]

An otherwise sharp flint, that has been knapped once too often, can become too short to get the job done. It is so short that it doesn't make contact with the frizzen until almost at the very bottom, allowing as little as 1/4" of scraping action, not enough to make sufficient sparks. Make sure the flint is contacting the frizzen high enough up to get a good scrape. I totally agree with the other posts on keeping the flint, frizzen, and pan clean. I wipe these before EVERY shot.

 

[swank]

Thanks for all the posts. BD the lock is the factory one on a Pedersoli Blue Ridge using 7/8" Tom Fuller black flints, 3F. While I've heard some criticism of the lock, up to this point it has been a consistent lock with lots of spark and the only couple of flashes in the pan I've had have been attributable to me (not wiping frizzen, pan, bottom of flint etc). Is this a frequent problem with this lock?

In the dark the lock still sparks well, I tried that once I got home. I will try cleaning the lock/flint/pan with alcohol next time, although I always do wipe it visibly clean with a spit patch, then dry cotton patch between each shot. The frizzen does have noticeable horizontal striations in the metal where the flint strikes, but I was under the assumption this wear was normal. HOw much wear is normal?

It is slightly more reassuring to know that there are

 

[mike alexandre]

Re your observation on cleaning and slinging lead. There are records that indicate that war is off today because its raining.

 

[mike alexandre]

SK. I like the prechecking of flints, is that a bit like the Irish survival manual where you check all the matches in the box at home so that they will work when you need them at camp ?? :front:

 

[brubincam]

while you are in the heat of battle having lots of lead slung in your direction...the other side has lots of lead slung in their direction too,,,both sides having flintlocks...using flints,,,frizzins,,black powder and lead ball....both sides were fairly even...just try to out number the enemy.... :imo: :imo: :imo:

 

[Tom Curran]

Horizontal ridges on the frizzen: as these get deeper, they will break your flint edge rapidly. If deep enough, the frizzen may be flipping open without getting a good scrape. Is there any way you could send us a good close-up photo in your post?

Most modern frizzens are through hardened and can stand to be smoothed up without loss of good spark. It sounds like yours is tempered well, as you have been getting good spark.

If it was mine, I'd belt sand it on the roller end to maintain the curvature. Keep a moistened wad of Kleenex of TP behind the frizzen to keep it cool. Take off only enough to smooth up the surface.

DO NOT back up the frizzen with cloth! It can catch and yank the thing right out of your hands, and before you know it, you've sanded your fingers down to the first joint.

 

[DannyB]

Well Swank, there's a lot of iron in the responses that you've gotten. Most of it sounded like good advice. I would recommend that if you're not schooled in the art, leave the frizzen hardening to someone that is (take my word on this one).

On many a hot July and August day spent on the range I have gone through several small pieces of pillow-ticking, wiping the moisture/crud from frizzen, pan, and top/bottom of flint. Usually had good results. I keep a piece of ticking about 1" X 4" tied to my priming horn at all times.

As far as flints go, some of the best ones that I've used were initially made for another purpose by my Mother's ancestors about 2000 years ago. I pick them up in the field across from the house and rework them to fit my needs. The quartz ones do REAL good.

 

[musketman]

One more thing from me, don't use your bare finger or thumb to clean the edge of the flint, blood on the frizzen is as bad as oil...

 

[swank]

Thanks- for all the responses. Tom as of yet, I can't post pictures here as I've never taken the time to find out how and have no idea. Musketman- kinda figured that one out the hard way, even while using a piece of old t-shirt. Surprisingly, sharp rocks will cut cotton and skin:hmm:.

Swank