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trouble with flint reliability

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humpy blaster

32 Cal.
Joined
Feb 9, 2012
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Hi
New to this forum so a little green I have a lyman gpr in flint geometry looks good lots of spark.Flash hole in right place as far as I can tell I am useing 2f main charge 65gr hand ground powder for prime.Pan flash is always there and ignition is very fast on first round second round is good but not as fast.Third round seems a little slow and fourth rnd just flash in pan problem is always solved by fully cleaning gun what am I doing wrong any ideas
Thx stump shooter
 
It sounds like you have fouling collecting in the patent breech. Picking the vent between shots may help. If not, try running a small brush in there. I think a .38 pistol brush works well.
 
Yes, start with wiping your pan, flint, and frizzen after every shot. I keep a rag hanging on my belt for this purpose. If you don't mind getting your fingers dirty, I just lick a finger and wipe it on all those surfaces and dry with the rag.
 
I am having better ignition using 3Fg for the charge, 4Fg for the prime, and I have opened up the touch hole diameter. The 1/16" inch touch hole is a good place to start. I have a 50 Cal GPR. My first attempt was with some 30 year old 2Fg and some new Pyrodex P or 3Fg - I struggled to fire the gun at all and get the gun unloaded. Pyrodex sizzles and Swiss 4Fg goes puff! Blackpowder is not readily available, but you have to do whatever it takes to get some. I have read that grinding your own priming powder exposes the powder to moisture absorption, but the effect probably takes longer than a shooting session. My second attempt with the stock Lyman touch hole and 4Fg prime was marginally better, but I had to trickle charge the touch hole to get ignition. My third attempt went much better with an enlarged touch hole, and I am moving on to different problems of my own making, the "Dry Ball!" :shake:
 
stump shooter said:
Hi
New to this forum so a little green I have a lyman gpr in flint geometry looks good lots of spark.Flash hole in right place as far as I can tell I am useing 2f main charge 65gr hand ground powder for prime.Pan flash is always there and ignition is very fast on first round second round is good but not as fast.Third round seems a little slow and fourth rnd just flash in pan problem is always solved by fully cleaning gun what am I doing wrong any ideas
Thx stump shooter


Good day my friend and welcome to the wonderful world of flintlocks!

The Flintlock - a problem for every solution :grin:
 
If you use a traditional firearm with black powder, blow down the barrel IMMEDIATELY after firing, on recovering from recoil.

There are 2 reasons to blow down the barrel:

1. Safety, to prevent injury from residual embers in the bore.
2. To clear obstructions in the breech-vent 'system', such as you are experiencing.

BE WARNED - Some people will tell you that this time-tested and traditional method is going to result in baby killing or worse(Many a truth is said in jest).

------------
Flintlock, round balls, and black powder - Life is Sweet.
 
Never an authority on anything, just speaking from my own personal experiences with several T/C Hawkens over the years:
Pretty sure your barrel & vent are a clone of T/Cs barrels and vents...so if the vent liner is indeed a 1/4"x28, get T/C's redesigned / improved / faster vent liners (2 in a package for a few bucks).
Switch to something like Goex 3F main / 4F prime, and enjoy...I've used Patent Breeches for 20 years and don't own a vent pick, much less use one.


PS:
Not interested in any debate over the suggestion about "blowing down a barrel"...just offering an alternate viewpoint:

1) I personally don't agree with the suggestion that you start putting your head & mouth over the muzzle of any firearm while engaged in the environment of range shooting/hunting/reloading, etc...because as remote as a chance for an AD as there might be...&#$#@&% happens...and is why one of the top 10 gun commandments has survived for as long as it has;

2) IMO, if blowing down a barrel is indeed a solution, it is simply compensating for some other problem...need to get to the root cause of the problem and fix it there...don't compensate for it by starting the bad habit of sticking your mouth & head over the muzzle of a firearm;

I've never had to do it in about 20 years, and routinely shoot 40-50 shot range sessions year-round without wiping between shots or having misfires, etc...so its obviously not a required practice.
 
I found this practice makes it worse. I believe it creates a soft blob of damp BP residue in the breech channel which combines with the next load of powder to create a plug. I tried this once and my gun stopped shooting. Had to stop and go home to flush it out. Ruined the whole day.
 
Welcome to the forum!

If you still have the stock touch hole liner from Lyman, it is your problem. They are simply awful. :nono: Either replace is with a good one, which is almost any thing else, or drill it with a #50 drill bit. Cone the outside, too.
Put 4f prime close to the touch hole and if some trickles in, good. :thumbsup:
As roundball says actions besides loading, priming and shooting are generally band aids for other problems and those issue should be resolved.
Picking, blowing, swabbing, slapping, banging, banking, checking your horoscope and moon phase are not usually required to shoot a flintlock. :shocked2:
 
I would check the touch hole size, .062" is about right and a handy vent pick size.

I used to blow down the barrel but it is no longer allowed at our club shoots.

It is not worth the debate, I just run a damp damp patch down between shots which is probably better.

I never could get used to dumping a new chrge down with smoke still wafting out of the barrel. :grin:
 
stump shooter said:
Hi
New to this forum so a little green I have a lyman gpr in flint geometry looks good lots of spark.Flash hole in right place as far as I can tell I am useing 2f main charge 65gr hand ground powder for prime.Pan flash is always there and ignition is very fast on first round second round is good but not as fast.Third round seems a little slow and fourth rnd just flash in pan problem is always solved by fully cleaning gun what am I doing wrong any ideas
Thx stump shooter


Poor vent liner.
Keep it clean by BRUSHING and running a SOFT pick like a pipe cleaner through if needed.
Vent liners with a deep external counterbore will cause this.
I jsut rebarreled a rifle for a friend and made the liner with an internal counter bore and a .040 or slightly larger vent. It finally flashed on the 10 shot but by then the pan was not closing properly and I may have lost some priming in moving into shooting position,I use Swiss "NullB" which is finer than FFFF. I have had this happen with the "bottom" lock of my swivel breech at times. Comes from not wiping the pan and frizzen so they mate properly.

P1030087.jpg

But the 040 vent did work. I am going to deliver it to the owner as is and let him do further experimentation. This SHOULD reduce shot to shot variation.
The vent is counter bored so that it places the main charge right next to the pan.
Dan
 
I am suspecting that you don't flush the oil in the powder chamber, and the flash channel in the rear( breech) of your gun before loading that first charge of FFg powder, using alcohol.

The Sequence you describe, where the first shot fires fast( as fast as you know), then each succeeding shot gets slower and slower( hang-fires) until the gun won't shoot at all is an indication that these small channels are building up crud because you left oil in them before loading that first charge of powder. Then, as you fire the gun, TARS- yeah- just like the black gunk left behind from smoking tobacco---- build up until powder can no longer flow through the small hole in the powder chamber and over to the Touch Hole.

First, change your cleaning procedure, and flush that barrel with alcohol to dissolve the oils and congealed grease that collects there.

Second, change your storage habits. Store that gun MUZZLE DOWN, so that any extra oil you leave in the bore will go out the muzzle instead of back into the flash channel. Put some paper towels, or folded newspaper under the muzzle to soak up the oil and keep SWMBO happy! :shocked2: :wink:

Third, Consider changing your powder choice to FFFg Goex, as the smaller sized 3Fg powder more easily gets thru and across the flash channel when you push air in front of the PRB as its loaded down on top of the powder.

Fourth, Close the frizzen to keep powder from being blown out the TH, and load the PRB down slowly, using a hand-over-hand technique on the rod, with neither hand more than 8" above the other.

Fifth, Do clean that pan and frizzen off of residue between shots- its the first part of my gun I clean after a shot is fired--- as the residue is hydroscopic- meaning it absorbs moisture from the air.

Sixth: Mark you ramrod, and range rod, and always load to the mark, carefully. When you run that first cleaning patch down the barrel after a shot, don't run it all the way to the bottom of the bore( and in front of that narrow powder chamber). Instead, stop 1" above that spot( You did mark your rod, didn't you?), and pull the crud out. Then using a new dampened patch, run it down to the breech as far as it will go. Let it sit there a moment so that the moisture in the patch will dissolve the crud back there, and the soft fabric will soak up the crud for removal. This is always far better than shoving the crud down into that powder chamber.

Now, use a clean dry cleaning patch to go down and dry that barrel. If that patch comes out slick and gooey with crud, use a second and even a third dry patch in the bore. How much crud and moisture there can be in a bore varies with the temperature and relative humidity on a given day, or given hour. Read those patches as they come out of your barrel: they will tell you what you need to know and do.

Some shooters keep a separate rod at the range with them that ha a smaller diameter brush, or cleaning jag to get down into that powder chamber. Others simply have the jags along, and change them if they think the chamber needs cleaning.

By flushing the powder chamber and flash channel with alcohol at the outset, and then NOT shoving crud down into the chamber from the bore, you can usually shoot all day without any clogging of the chamber that requires you to clean it. :surrender: :thumbsup:

Don't beat yourself up about all this. This is part of the "Learning curve" of shooting flint locks. The Lyman designed gun, with the powder chamber and long flash channel just adds some more problems.

You want powder visible next to the TH, but you don't want it plugging the entrance in case of moisture wetting that powder. Use a vent pick, but don't remove all the powder you can see. Hopefully, you have an inside coned TH- that allows powder to rest above and below the hole itself to catch the heat from your burning priming powder.

Some THs work best if opened up from what comes from the factory. Use drill bits to determine what the current hole size is on your TH. Usually its smaller than 1/16"(.0625") You can go up to about .0700"(#50 drill bit) before any FFFg Goex powder begins to blow out the TH. :hmm: :hatsoff:
 
Powder that is ground too fine can actually slow ignition.
The air space provided by the granules increases flame propagation in priming charges. Or so I have read.

Dan
 
flint reliability

Understand "flint reliability" is an oxymoron. :rotf:
Those of us who use flint ignition almost exclusively do it for the masochistic thrill of frustration. :wink:
Problems occur and recur frequently. That is part of the game.
A lot of suggestions have been offered. I'll try to help by suggesting you re-read all of them (except the part about blowing down the barrel :nono: ) and try to apply to your situation. I swab between shots and suspect that will help your cause. A new and better touchhole liner might also solve the issue, do look into that.
And, welcome to the zany world of TFL and flintlocking.
 
Here is an image after 30 rounds without wiping flint, pan or pricking the vent. No delays or misfires.

Also no wiping of the bore between shots.

DSCN0088.jpg


Occasionally what happens is a liquid lube or solvent used between shots will collect damp goo down on the face of the breech plug or around the vent channel and this kills the powder. The process of firing a flintlock should leave you ready for the next shot if your powder is good.

Some days I wipe the face of the frizzen and the pan with a dry patch if it seems to be accumulating fouling there.
 
Hi again
First off thanks for the warm welcome and all the loading and shooting advice this is a great forum.I guess i should give you a run down of my loading and shooting procedure.First I burn a pan of powder then I push a clean patch into bore to remove oil already opened th to 50 drill size or about 70 thou.Then I dump 65gr of 2f goex into bore then seat patched ball on top without compression as best as I can tell. pick the hole and wiggle pick around to loosen powder up a bit.Then I put a little hand ground 4f in pan and fire.I have always run a dry patch down after fireing and this may be my problem as I may be pushing carbon into patent breech but this gives me great accuracy when it fires.Sorry this is so long winded but has me bugged anyway headed to iceroads tomorrow so if I dont respond you will know why. Again thanks a lot its been great here will be back april Don
 
Mark the ramrod where a normal load would sit. Now when running a cleaning patch down only go a smidge past that to not push manure into the breach area.

I pick before loading if I think I need to clean manure out of the flash channel region. This keeps from pushing the powder out of the channel and since it is clean will be closer to the touch-hole, easier for the flash/flame to reach.
 
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