I blow down the barrel if an immediate follow-up shot is required while hunting. Otherwise, I wipe out the bore between shots for target shooting. I'm fortunate to have a small range on my place in the country. I don't like having to follow other's rules if I can help it.
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trouble with flint reliability
- Thread starter humpy blaster
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Any time you swab after shootin you shove something into that patent breech. If you are using a grease lube and you feel you have to swab for accuracy, swab after you load the ball. Someone may say that is unsafe. It may or may not be (two times your fingers over the bore). If you use a wet lubed patch it will swab on the way down as you seat the ball negating the need to swab.
If you must swab, you need a jag that pulls the fouling out instead of pushing it down. This means a smaller than normal jag. You can reduce the diameter of your jag and experiment with different swabbbing rags to achieve this.
So shoot and load then swab. Open the touch hole up. When you load the powder smack the side of the barrel at the breech to get some powder back there and enjoy your GPR
Bob
If you must swab, you need a jag that pulls the fouling out instead of pushing it down. This means a smaller than normal jag. You can reduce the diameter of your jag and experiment with different swabbbing rags to achieve this.
So shoot and load then swab. Open the touch hole up. When you load the powder smack the side of the barrel at the breech to get some powder back there and enjoy your GPR
Bob
"Not interested in any debate over the suggestion about "blowing down a barrel"...
"1) I personally don't agree with the suggestion that you start putting your head & mouth over the muzzle of any firearm while engaged in the environment of range shooting/hunting/reloading, etc"
To each their own but the first and second statements seem a bit contradictory, or one just wants to state their position and not hear any others
"1) I personally don't agree with the suggestion that you start putting your head & mouth over the muzzle of any firearm while engaged in the environment of range shooting/hunting/reloading, etc"
To each their own but the first and second statements seem a bit contradictory, or one just wants to state their position and not hear any others
Absolutely disagree. Two shooters in family with 40+ years of cleaning between many-many thousands of shots and have not had that experience.
A properly fitted jag (I do note you sorta qualified your statement later) only pulls the crud back up, nothing is shoved down. And, yes, some of my rifles are patened breeches.
You may have experienced a unique situation.Leatherbark said:
Just for a different viewpoint”¦I’ve never had an ignition problem caused by fouling getting down into any of my Patent Breeches”¦long range sessions, year round weather, Goex powder, Natural Lube 1000 and/or Hoppes PLUS lube, almost 20 years.
Their design prevents the jag and patch from entering”¦any film of fouling pushed down off the bore walls stops around the top outer circumference of the Patent Breech.
TWO PHOTOS:
1) A T/C Patent Breech breechplug showing the reduced diameter of the top powder chamber;
2) A single cleaning patch after a 50 shot range session”¦the dark circle in the middle is where the 50 shot fouling ring was lifted off the top outer circumference of the breech mouth.
54ball
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The simple solution, may be, that you need to shoot your gun and shoot it often. Any flintlock shooter will tell you there is a learning curve for you and a break in period for the rifle. Try different loads, sizes and brands of black powder but never 4f as main charge.
My .45 longrifle absolutely hated 4f as prime and 3f as main. It does best with 2f prime and 2f main. When my smoothbore was new I had to pick often but now I do not. It also prefers 2f and 2f. The more I shoot these guns the better they get. Simply put, they are not as finicky about loads and prime as they were when they were new. It did take a lot of range time and some fiddling with the guns, especially the longrifle.
This is what I did to my rifle. It was very finicky and would bust flints after just a few shots. It was also very unreliable. I polished the frizzen to remove burs and smooth strike marks. I deepened the pan and polished it. I slightly enlarged the vent. I shot it a lot to find the best combination.
My rifle has a flat breech plug and drilled vent so it it s a good deal different than yours with the patent breech.
I do have a GPR in percussion. GPRs when new, came from the factory with a cosmoline type substance in the barrel. If the rifle is fired with this stuff still in the barrel or worse the breech it is very difficult to remove. I recommend that you remove the barrel and give it a super cleaning.
My .45 longrifle absolutely hated 4f as prime and 3f as main. It does best with 2f prime and 2f main. When my smoothbore was new I had to pick often but now I do not. It also prefers 2f and 2f. The more I shoot these guns the better they get. Simply put, they are not as finicky about loads and prime as they were when they were new. It did take a lot of range time and some fiddling with the guns, especially the longrifle.
This is what I did to my rifle. It was very finicky and would bust flints after just a few shots. It was also very unreliable. I polished the frizzen to remove burs and smooth strike marks. I deepened the pan and polished it. I slightly enlarged the vent. I shot it a lot to find the best combination.
My rifle has a flat breech plug and drilled vent so it it s a good deal different than yours with the patent breech.
I do have a GPR in percussion. GPRs when new, came from the factory with a cosmoline type substance in the barrel. If the rifle is fired with this stuff still in the barrel or worse the breech it is very difficult to remove. I recommend that you remove the barrel and give it a super cleaning.
Billnpatti
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It all has to do with keeping your pan, frizzen and flint clean after every shot and keeping your touch hole open. I keep a rag handy for wiping the pan, frizzen and flint after each shot and I keep a touch hole pick handy to run through the touch hole to remove any fouling after every shot. Cleanliness is next to Godliness.....especially with flintlocks. :thumbsup:
I've held off responding - Didn't want to highjack a thread.
Thanks for your view, I wasn't there and am sorry that you had trouble. I've never had similar trouble.
I am not sure that blowing was the cause of the trouble, tho. I guess you 'blew' successfully immediately after discharge,showing there was no problem then. Perhaps you laid the gun aside for a few minutes and the residual gunk in the breech then solidified?? This would have had nothing to do with blowing down the barrel.
This is just a thought. Again, I am very sorry you had a ruined day.
Thanks for your view, I wasn't there and am sorry that you had trouble. I've never had similar trouble.
I am not sure that blowing was the cause of the trouble, tho. I guess you 'blew' successfully immediately after discharge,showing there was no problem then. Perhaps you laid the gun aside for a few minutes and the residual gunk in the breech then solidified?? This would have had nothing to do with blowing down the barrel.
This is just a thought. Again, I am very sorry you had a ruined day.
Rifleman1776 said:
Using a too wet patch to wipe with CAN cause trouble if the water migrates into the breech.
I have three
"patent" breeches.
One Nock (the original patent breech)
and 2 plain
and have no problem with them.
I seldom wipe the Nock breeched rifle when shooting but have wiped every shot at matches with the other two on my swivel breech with no problem.
But I only wipe the BORE and do no wipe into the breech cavity.
Dan
Too wet and shoving stuff are different things.
In this ml game we all do things differently. My between shots swabbing is with a spit patch and I don't slobber much. Just kinda dampen the patch. My jags are loose in the bore. I let the bunched up patch do the "stuff" pulling on the way out. I do this on all my rifles, regardless of breech style. Works for me.
In this ml game we all do things differently. My between shots swabbing is with a spit patch and I don't slobber much. Just kinda dampen the patch. My jags are loose in the bore. I let the bunched up patch do the "stuff" pulling on the way out. I do this on all my rifles, regardless of breech style. Works for me.
I don't swab between shots unless the fouling from the last shots starts to make the patched ball hard to ram.
When that happens, I fire the shot and then run a damp (not wet) patch down the bore to the breech plug.
I let it sit there for a count of 10-20 seconds and then slowly pull the patched jag back out of the bore.
It always brings a LOT of fouling with it.
I NEVER run the damp patch up and down the bore.
That, in my thinking, is an excellent way to knock off the fouling and then blow it back into the flame channel in the breech or drum.
(A long time ago I did use the pumping method and it usually caused problems. That's why I don't use it any more.)
When that happens, I fire the shot and then run a damp (not wet) patch down the bore to the breech plug.
I let it sit there for a count of 10-20 seconds and then slowly pull the patched jag back out of the bore.
It always brings a LOT of fouling with it.
I NEVER run the damp patch up and down the bore.
That, in my thinking, is an excellent way to knock off the fouling and then blow it back into the flame channel in the breech or drum.
(A long time ago I did use the pumping method and it usually caused problems. That's why I don't use it any more.)
True, but the effect is the same. Just thought people might be thinking it was one when it might be the other.Rifleman1776 said:
If I wipe between shots I use a uniformly somewhat wet patch once up and down each side then a dry patch both sides.
I store wet patches in a plastic jar to make sure they are uniformly damp from patch to patch.
Dan
I store my spit in my mouth.
humpy blaster
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Hi again
Thanks for all the help you guys are great I will try to outline my exact procedure as I cant figure this out at all.I fire a pan or two of powder then run a dry butches tripple twill patch down to the patent breech.Then dry the small cavity of the patent breech with a 270cal brush and a clean patch.Next I pour a charge of 2f down the barrel usually 65grs tap the barrel to seat the powder.Then I push a 535 ball on a patch with hoppes black powder patch lube moist not wet down to the patent breech. I charge the pan with less than half the pan full of crushed 2f may be finer than 4f I dont know.Cock aim and fire first shot is perfect then walk to target at 50 yds walk back push a dry patch down barrel to patent breech. Have been experimenting with diffrent # of strokes then reload with same procedure about load # 3 or 4 it quits firing.I have ordered a new touch hole liner from track and also from rmc I think still waiting on them.I wont give up but am loosing confidence that I could actually hunt with something this unreliable also getting a new shipment of 3f Goex and some actual 4f for prime.
Sorry so long winded
Thx Don
Thanks for all the help you guys are great I will try to outline my exact procedure as I cant figure this out at all.I fire a pan or two of powder then run a dry butches tripple twill patch down to the patent breech.Then dry the small cavity of the patent breech with a 270cal brush and a clean patch.Next I pour a charge of 2f down the barrel usually 65grs tap the barrel to seat the powder.Then I push a 535 ball on a patch with hoppes black powder patch lube moist not wet down to the patent breech. I charge the pan with less than half the pan full of crushed 2f may be finer than 4f I dont know.Cock aim and fire first shot is perfect then walk to target at 50 yds walk back push a dry patch down barrel to patent breech. Have been experimenting with diffrent # of strokes then reload with same procedure about load # 3 or 4 it quits firing.I have ordered a new touch hole liner from track and also from rmc I think still waiting on them.I wont give up but am loosing confidence that I could actually hunt with something this unreliable also getting a new shipment of 3f Goex and some actual 4f for prime.
Sorry so long winded
Thx Don
I popped off 18 rounds in my .50 GPR this weekend with no trouble. Vent is 0.070", Prime: Swiss 4Fg, Powder: Goex 2Fg. No tapping on the gun to settle the powder. I fill the L&R pan up most of the way and the prime is next to the barrel. I didn't pick the vent through the whole shoot to see what would happen - it kept shooting. I run a damp swab down the barrel between shots - in and out. Good luck!
Is it humid where you are shooting? I am shooting in the high desert - humidity?
Is it humid where you are shooting? I am shooting in the high desert - humidity?
humpy blaster
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In response to Ripley1
Hi I guess what you are doing is very much the same as what I do and where i live is very dry not desert dry but considered dry.I drilled the touch hole to 0.070 and flared the touch hole the only thing I can think of is I am being too cheap on prime as I use very little.I will try useing more see if that improves things .Thanks for the help.Do you have the stock touch hole in your gun.
Hi I guess what you are doing is very much the same as what I do and where i live is very dry not desert dry but considered dry.I drilled the touch hole to 0.070 and flared the touch hole the only thing I can think of is I am being too cheap on prime as I use very little.I will try useing more see if that improves things .Thanks for the help.Do you have the stock touch hole in your gun.
Guest
I'll second the breaking in part. When I first got done with mine it would miss fire every other shot or so, and sometimes hangfire.
Personally I think part of it is the lock work breaking in. Even if you take it apart and polish the moving parts there's always a bur or two and parts that need to seat against each other. The other part is a steep learning curve on my part.
After a little practice and playing with flint angles and shooting it it will pretty much fire every time now. I've also found that mine really likes 4F. There's a noticeable difference between it and the 3F I was using for prime. But I found it likes 2F Swiss for main charge better than other powders, both for ignition and accuracy. At the price of Swiss powder vs. others it's a good thing it doesn't have the rate of fire of a repeater!
Lots of good suggestion here. I learned a lot from spending days reading through the post and articles here, and getting out and shooting. And getting a bunch of spare flints!
Personally I think part of it is the lock work breaking in. Even if you take it apart and polish the moving parts there's always a bur or two and parts that need to seat against each other. The other part is a steep learning curve on my part.
After a little practice and playing with flint angles and shooting it it will pretty much fire every time now. I've also found that mine really likes 4F. There's a noticeable difference between it and the 3F I was using for prime. But I found it likes 2F Swiss for main charge better than other powders, both for ignition and accuracy. At the price of Swiss powder vs. others it's a good thing it doesn't have the rate of fire of a repeater!
Lots of good suggestion here. I learned a lot from spending days reading through the post and articles here, and getting out and shooting. And getting a bunch of spare flints!
Yes. I drilled it out to 0.070" and coned the outside down to the bottom of the slot with a bigger drill bit. I bought two pounds of 4Fg, while I was at it, and I think I may have to will the 2nd pound to my descendents. I don't mind filling the pan most of the way. I don't cover the vent, but I use the whole pan. I like to watch the smoke issue from the vent when I clean the bore between shots - simple pleasures!stump shooter said:
humpy blaster
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Hey success
Guess what, learned something today not bad for an old fart eh.Tried 2f main charge and 2f prime and gun fired till flint quit sparking this is a first.I am getting some 3f powder next week and think that will be the perfect combo, I now believe the 4f that I ground was too fast and not hot enough to lite main charge.I also may have been too cheap on the prime as It now seems to be firing every shot.Cant wait till I get my new flints do you guys have any suggestions for flints as what I ordered were 3/4 in black English are they going to work.They are from Track of the wolf is there something else that is better Also have new touch hole ordered from rcm I think might be rmc cant remember.These cut flints supplied with gun produce spark but not for long may get 8 rnds then a misfire knap and 6 or 8 more is this common for these flints.The neat thing about this gun is my first group even with long ignition time is as good as my cap guns.Thanks for all the incouragement you guys are great going to enjoy it here now if I could learn to use this computer.
Thx Don
Guess what, learned something today not bad for an old fart eh.Tried 2f main charge and 2f prime and gun fired till flint quit sparking this is a first.I am getting some 3f powder next week and think that will be the perfect combo, I now believe the 4f that I ground was too fast and not hot enough to lite main charge.I also may have been too cheap on the prime as It now seems to be firing every shot.Cant wait till I get my new flints do you guys have any suggestions for flints as what I ordered were 3/4 in black English are they going to work.They are from Track of the wolf is there something else that is better Also have new touch hole ordered from rcm I think might be rmc cant remember.These cut flints supplied with gun produce spark but not for long may get 8 rnds then a misfire knap and 6 or 8 more is this common for these flints.The neat thing about this gun is my first group even with long ignition time is as good as my cap guns.Thanks for all the incouragement you guys are great going to enjoy it here now if I could learn to use this computer.
Thx Don
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