TRS Wheellock building. Who can put one together?

[lexington1]

I know this is probably a long shot, but can anyone here put a TRS wheelock parts set together? I have a complete set of castings, but just need to find a builder.

 

[Commodore Swab]

Which one out of curiosity?

 

[lexington1]

It is TRS 623, Early Germanic lock.

 

[Sam squanch]

I haven’t heard any good news from builders about the rifle shoppe wheellock sets. I’ve never seen one, but I was told the internal parts are very hard to get to work together, to the point of using the outside parts only and fabricating new internals.

 

[FlinterNick]

I haven’t heard any good news from builders about the rifle shoppe wheellock sets. I’ve never seen one, but I was told the internal parts are very hard to get to work together, to the point of using the outside parts only and fabricating new internals.

They’re not that difficult to build, you can ask the rifle shoppe for their plans to follow.

The most difficult part of the wheel lock is some of the kits have cross pins instead of screws, you have to make sure that the parts are positioned really well or you will have an unstable lock.

I’ve recut the cast wheels, on a lathe from 1095 steel with an indexed attachment, then hardened and quenched in parks oil and did a staggered temper at 400, then 600 each for 45 min to an hour.

 

[Sam squanch]

For ME it would be difficult! I’d get a WELL known builder to do it, it will be worth more $$ if you decide to sell it.

 

[FlinterNick]

For ME it would be difficult! I’d get a WELL known builder to do it, it will be worth more $$ if you decide to sell it.

They take a long time to assemble, which is why they’re an expensive project for most.

 

[Commodore Swab]

It is TRS 623, Early Germanic lock.

I've done 2 of those, quirky and can be made to work. The problem is the wheel to pan tolerance isn't what it could be. The casting for the chain has slop in it as well. There are some tricks to making it work using the parts supplied. Due to the inherit issues there is too much labor involved to make it worthwhile. This particular lock can be built completely with screws (1 pin for sear) and if you notice I'm betting you have no sear spring, a piece of spring stock, or a "made" spring that will need to be ground to work.

 

[FlinterNick]

I haven’t heard any good news from builders about the rifle shoppe wheellock sets. I’ve never seen one, but I was told the internal parts are very hard to get to work together, to the point of using the outside parts only and fabricating new internals.

Problem Sam is that the parts just don’t cast very well.I’ve ended up hand making a lot of wheel lock parts that didn’t cast well.

With the parts being nearly 300-400 years old mostly, restoring the parts for molding is tricky.

They were also Made of iron, which means parts could be bent and reshaped as they’re building it, much harder to do with 4140, 6150 or even some mild steels.

The best wheel locks I’ve seen are all scratch built from Plan’s and sketches. Taking the original lock and redesigning it with modern 3D tech is the way to go for a good wheel lock build.

 

[Sam squanch]

I drew up some ideas for a wheellock powered by a clock mainspring, but I don’t know it it would work, so I forgot about it for now.

 

[Commodore Swab]

Problem Sam is that the parts just don’t cast very well.I’ve ended up hand making a lot of wheel lock parts that didn’t cast well.

With the parts being nearly 300-400 years old mostly, restoring the parts for molding is tricky.

They were also Made of iron, which means parts could be bent and reshaped as they’re building it, much harder to do with 4140, 6150 or even some mild steels.

The best wheel locks I’ve seen are all scratch built from Plan’s and sketches. Taking the original lock and redesigning it with modern 3D tech is the way to go for a good wheel lock build.

You stated on another thread you were building locks for TRS, I guess no wheellocks? I remember because you threatened not to build one for me if they gave it to you to build. Does this mean now that you believe their castings are "not cast well" or only certain castings?

 

[Commodore Swab]

I drew up some ideas for a wheellock powered by a clock mainspring, but I don’t know it it would work, so I forgot about it for now.

It shouldn't work, a clock spring is light for duration over time whereas a wheellock spring doesn't even rotate 1 rev.

 

[FlinterNick]

I drew up some ideas for a wheellock powered by a clock mainspring, but I don’t know it it would work, so I forgot about it for now.

For the wheel locks I’ve made i almost always forge new mainsprings, its not that the casted mainsprings can’t work, its a lot easier to manipulate the spring’s shape from a forged piece of spring steel, same with snap locks and some snaphaunces.

I would use the same pattern from the kit and make one by hand, not too difficult to do, 3D printer’s help a lot.

 

[FlinterNick]

I know this is probably a long shot, but can anyone here put a TRS wheelock parts set together? I have a complete set of castings, but just need to find a builder.

Feel free to reach out to me

 

[Henry Elwood]

Greetings,
I wish I had some helpful insights as to finding a builder. I don't really know too many folks in the community. They are a Labor of love and just require a large amount of time and experience to do it right.
Hank

 

[lexington1]

Thanks guys. I have built quite a few flinters, but this wheellock just intimidates me!

 

[CW the ShopDog]

Hey guys, Interested in the answer to OP’s question about builders for wheelocks.

I’d like to add a wheelock to my collection of pre- cartridge firearms, but the idea of building one ( and having it work) seems overwhelming and a steep learning curve. Sometimes in life you got to know your limitations and when to call in a more experienced person. I don’t do DIY surgery for example…. Building a reliable wheellock seems to fall into that category IMHO.

CW

 

[FlinterNick]

Thanks guys. I have built quite a few flinters, but this wheellock just intimidates me!

Thanks guys. I have built quite a few flinters, but this wheellock just intimidates me!

You can make it work. Dog Catch is pretty easy to install, just like a frizzen. Pan cover and internals are not that difficult. Internal springs are tough on this lock, again i would make my own from 1070,1084, 6150 or 15N20 stock.

The Wheel is what is a challenge, again i would make my own from tooling steel or 1095, cut the teeth with an angle grinder and file, i used a single cut file to cut the teeth.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

It shouldn't work, a clock spring is light for duration over time whereas a wheellock spring doesn't even rotate 1 rev.

... the wheel itself only rotates but 3/4-qtrs a turn at most, plus cam open the pan cover, so they need tremendous torque, but we knew what you meant .

FWIW when Brian Anderson built that kit he found 1/2 the parts to be unusable ...

 

[Commodore Swab]

... the wheel itself only rotates but 3/4-qtrs a turn at most, plus cam open the pan cover, so they need tremendous torque, but we knew what you meant .

FWIW when Brian Anderson built that kit he found 1/2 the parts to be unusable ...

As I said I've put together 2 of those locks using their parts, maybe I was 4 times luckier.