Trying to decide

[nit wit]

I prefer my 62 cal to my Gary White Committee Of Safety Musket(Bess). The .62 is more accurate and uses less lead!
Nit Wit

 

[flconch53]

I thought a Bess was 11 gauge…

It is 72 cal is 12 ga

 

[Loja man]

I'm really starting to have fun with this Chambers 20g .62 PA Fowler I built last year. It's the one on top.

View attachment 232691
25 yards off hand. 3f Goex patched .595 round ball, spit patch.
View attachment 232692

Jacks Fowler shoots good!!

 

[sturmkatze]

It is 72 cal is 12 ga

Good to know

 

[rich pierce]

I’d not want to lug a Brown Bess around hunting.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I thought a Bess was 11 gauge…

There's really no one answer for the gauge measurement of a Brown Bess. Different manufacturers used different bore dimensions for their barrels. Going back to the acceptance measurements for the British pattern for the King's musket, the bore could be acceptable from 0.720" to 0.780". To ensure that any of these muskets could be loaded from supplied stores, the ball diameter was 0.690" wrapped in a paper cartridge. This ball size in a paper wrapped cartridge is suitable for a 12 gauge measured bore, 0.720". Now, what gauge is usually found as offered by several manufacturers? Miroku used many bore diameters from a common 0.690 for early Besses and Charlevilles. Common barrel sizes made for more efficient manufacture. Soon the uproar over the small diameter bored Besses was too much, and the bore was increased to 0.720". Pedersoli has always made their 2nd model Land Pattern Musket with a bore of 0.750". This is the common 11 gauge that we often encounter. The Land Pattern Muskets manufactured in India are another can of dimensional worms. These can vary quite a bit from 0.750" to mor commonly 0.770 to 0.780", which is nearly 10 gauge. It's been a while since I checked to see what the barrel dimensions are on barrels supplied with Rifle Shoppe kits.

The only way to know the actual gauge of the Brown Bess in one's possession, is to measure the bore diameter. I had a Pedersoli with the 0.750" bore and I have a Loyalist Arms Land Pattern Musket that has a 0.780" bore. I do use 11 gauge wads in my Bess, but most often I use a 0.715" ball in a paper wrapped cartridge. That has been "accurate" enough for my quality of shooting when I shoot live rounds.

And I whole heartedly agree with @rich pierce. That 12 pound Land Pattern Musket is not what I want to carry around when I can carry a 7 pound fowling gun.

 

[springfield art]

So I have decided I'm going to get my first smoothbore. I really really like the long land Brown bess carbine. I love the fact that it is 12 gauge and I will use a lot of shot in it. But I also wanted to be of hunting accuracy with a ball out to 50 yards at least. I like the idea of the large caliber because I am a very large person. But I'm wondering if I would get better roundball accuracy out of a 20 gauge. Like the 62 caliber fusils I've seen. Most of the fusal barrels are a little longer. This is going to be a hunting gun so weight is going to be a factor. I am really in love with the Brown Bess but I don't want to miss out on the potential accuracy of the longer fusil. I would love to hear some opinions on the matter. I plan on getting one from India. Although I am capable of drilling a touch hole I'm considering going with loyalist arms because they are proofed. What do you guys think?

I'd bet some guys on here will reply with their tips using the Bess Carbine; your project sounds like fun, best of luck with it. Ball size, patch, powder charge, all could be tweaked to give you great accuracy at moderate distances. Will be interesting to see what replies you get. And, good for you for going with the India-made; don't let the naysayers deflect you.

 

[springfield art]

I’d not want to lug a Brown Bess around hunting.

Maybe the Carbine, though.

 

[M1ashooter]

There's really no one answer for the gauge measurement of a Brown Bess. Different manufacturers used different bore dimensions for their barrels. Going back to the acceptance measurements for the British pattern for the King's musket, the bore could be acceptable from 0.720" to 0.780". To ensure that any of these muskets could be loaded from supplied stores, the ball diameter was 0.690" wrapped in a paper cartridge. This ball size in a paper wrapped cartridge is suitable for a 12 gauge measured bore, 0.720". Now, what gauge is usually found as offered by several manufacturers? Miroku used many bore diameters from a common 0.690 for early Besses and Charlevilles. Common barrel sizes made for more efficient manufacture. Soon the uproar over the small diameter bored Besses was too much, and the bore was increased to 0.720". Pedersoli has always made their 2nd model Land Pattern Musket with a bore of 0.750". This is the common 11 gauge that we often encounter. The Land Pattern Muskets manufactured in India are another can of dimensional worms. These can vary quite a bit from 0.750" to mor commonly 0.770 to 0.780", which is nearly 10 gauge. It's been a while since I checked to see what the barrel dimensions are on barrels supplied with Rifle Shoppe kits.

The only way to know the actual gauge of the Brown Bess in one's possession, is to measure the bore diameter. I had a Pedersoli with the 0.750" bore and I have a Loyalist Arms Land Pattern Musket that has a 0.780" bore. I do use 11 gauge wads in my Bess, but most often I use a 0.715" ball in a paper wrapped cartridge. That has been "accurate" enough for my quality of shooting when I shoot live rounds.

And I whole heartedly agree with @rich pierce. That 12 pound Land Pattern Musket is not what I want to carry around when I can carry a 7 pound fowling gun.

I didn't know the Besd was 12lbs. Ive always thought my M1 Garand was heavier

 

[MAC1967]

This is not what you mentioned, but I too built a Chamber's PA fowler in 20 / 62 a few years ago and it shoots shot and round ball quite well. It was not a difficult build. . .buttplate was the most difficult, but I had a coach that helped. It is a very light rifle.

 

[Rob M.]

So I have decided I'm going to get my first smoothbore. I really really like the long land Brown bess carbine. I love the fact that it is 12 gauge and I will use a lot of shot in it. But I also wanted to be of hunting accuracy with a ball out to 50 yards at least. I like the idea of the large caliber because I am a very large person. But I'm wondering if I would get better roundball accuracy out of a 20 gauge. Like the 62 caliber fusils I've seen. Most of the fusal barrels are a little longer. This is going to be a hunting gun so weight is going to be a factor. I am really in love with the Brown Bess but I don't want to miss out on the potential accuracy of the longer fusil. I would love to hear some opinions on the matter. I plan on getting one from India. Although I am capable of drilling a touch hole I'm considering going with loyalist arms because they are proofed. What do you guys think?

I wish you had the opportunity to handle and shoot a few different types/ styles before making your decision . Perhaps look for a shoot or rendezvous in your area and look around , shoot some . It would be well worth it . Opinions and likes will certainly differ . I wouldnt take two Brown Bess for a single trade gun , English or French . The Bess is a fun gun , as all flintlocks are , but I wouldnt have one personally . Hope you get something you like , enjoy . Best of luck

 

[Grenadier1758]

I didn't know the Besd was 12lbs. Ive always thought my M1 Garand was heavier

My Loyalist Arms Long Land Pattern Bess is 12 pounds. Original Land Pattern Muskets of the 18th century used thinner barrel walls and less dense wood. Original muskets would weigh between 9.5 and 10.5 pounds approximately.

 

[NorthFork]

@Old Sparky

Mind if I make a suggestion? Buy yourself a Pedersoli Indian Trade Musket.

See here- FR3170 Pedersoli Indian Trade Musket

Comes finished or as a kit. The 'purists' here hate it as there are a couple minor cosmetic issues with it that make it not HC/PC. However those who actually OWN one love them. Myself included. It is a .63 or 19 gauge, not a .62/20 gauge. I have killed deer, coyote, dove, turkey, goose, duck, rabbit, squirrel, pheasant, quail, and Hungarian partridge with it. Shoots ball and shot just fine. I've used lead shot for everything but waterfowl and deer and bismuth shot for waterfowl from it. I know Pedersoli says 1 oz max, but I commonly shoot 1 1/8 and 1 1/4 from it all the time.

Those who actually own and shoot/hunt with one say it's great. Those who want complete HC/PC (nothing wrong with that!) say it's no good. @Britsmoothy owns one and I hope he says a few words about his. Mine will be buried with me (yes I'm serious). If mine was stolen today, I would buy another. It's one of a very few guns I can count on to put food on the table and in the freezer no matter what. I adore mine and have ZERO problems with it. @Britsmoothy had to clean up his lock and then has been good since. Many, many people own one and hunt with them and love them. Most affordable, reasonably HC/PC Trade Musket on the market that works, and works WELL.

edit- some of the guns suggested above weight 9 1/2 to 12#. Can be unwieldy in the field. The Ped. Ind. Trade Musket weighs just over 7#. While not a true fowler, it can be brought into wingshooting with a bit of practice.

 

[Celt5494]

In my opinion there is nothing wrong with your choice of a Bess. It's plenty versatile but I would interject just a thought. If the weapon is going to be used primarily for a hunting weapon you may check out a Fowling piece. I have a beautiful Fowler in .73 (Roughly a .12 gauge) that is relatively lightweight and quick on the swing. I'd prefer that over the weight of a military arm of the period.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Nothing wrong with a Pedersoli trade gun.
How many photos do you want.

 

[NorthFork]

@Britsmoothy

I'm not the OP obviously, but post as many as you like!

 

[Brokennock]

Nothing wrong with a Pedersoli trade gun.
How many photos do you want.
View attachment 233194

Maybe you should outline what you feel the differences are between your Pedersoli Trade Gun and your Pedersoli B.Bess....
Someone said you own a Pedersoli Bess and seemed to imply you really like it,,,,

 

[Yewbender]

Old Sparky, i sent you a PM

 

[Britsmoothy]

Maybe you should outline what you feel the differences are between your Pedersoli Trade Gun and your Pedersoli B.Bess....
Someone said you own a Pedersoli Bess and seemed to imply you really like it,,,,

I did indeed have both but sold the Bess after several years, the Pedersoli trade gun is staying put.

The Bess was a greedy girl. Kind of didn't wake up unless she had over 1&1/2 Oz of shot or more! She just like to eat well!
The trade gun does it frugal or stuffed!
The Bess lock was super reliable but slow.

 

[1971fx]

My Loyalist Arms Long Land Pattern Bess is 12 pounds. Original Land Pattern Muskets of the 18th century used thinner barrel walls and less dense wood. Original muskets would weigh between 9.5 and 10.5 pounds approximately.

This original Brown Bess was found in Central NY state. It hasthe remains of the elephant on the lock plate