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sooter76

40 Cal.
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So upon redeployment I'm looking at getting my first flintlock and am eyeing a couple different models from TVM. Specifically the 'Iron Pennsylvania', 'Early Virginia', and the 2 'Lancaster Rifles'. All of them are quite attractive in their own rights, but specifically I'm looking for one that would blend in well during the F&I era... Can anyone offer an opinion as to which would blend best?

Thanks!
 
I am no authority! Every day on this Forum, I learn how much I don't know.

That said, I would rule out the iron mounted PA rifle and the Late Lancaster.

I would look more closely at the Jaeger, and the Fowler, and the Tulle as well.

Other folks, more knowledgeable than I, will be along shortly.

And thank you, for your Service. :hatsoff:
 
Also, what aspects of the F&I War are of greater interest to you? E.G. New England, New York, Eastern PA, the western frontier, military, civilian, militia man, frontiersman (farmer/hunter), average man or wealthier? Each will influence what might be the appropriate choice.

The smoothbore was much more common than "we" used to think. But rifles were there.

And you need to decide how historically accurate you need to be. Even with a Brown Bess, only a very few patterns would be correct.

And early rifles were plain - unless you were very well off.

If you are not into reenacting, buy whatever you like.

I have learned much from this Forum, and every day I learn how much more I need to know. This is the place for answers, or a point in the right direction for what to study.
 
I'd suggest either the early Lancaster, Va rifle or the jaeger with the jaeger being the earliest.
 
Are you a re enacting or doing juried events?
Do your homework and study the era....Use books..web sites..etc....Then pick a builder or kit.
Money and time well spent. Good Luck
 
From the late Gary Brumfield....
What did a rifle made in Virginia prior to 1750 look like?

The question about what a pre-1750 longrifle might look like goes WAY beyond Virginia. Documented American rifles made anywhere before 1760 are scarce and, if you toss out the ones with questionable documentation, signatures, or origin, they come down basically to a few parts found in archaeological sites, also sometimes of questionable, European or American, origin. Based on documents, we know that both short rifles and long rifles existed in the colonies prior to the 1740s but nailing down a few surviving examples would be a wonderful breakthrough in research.

Given the lack of pre-1750 examples, what does it mean when someone refers to a longrifle as “early?”

“Early” is another term that has different meanings depending on the context in which it is used. An early Tennessee rifle is very different in period from an early Lancaster rifle. For the sake of simplicity I will stick to how the term is generally used in reference to the subject of Virginia made longrifles.

An early style rifle usually means one that pre-dates the “Golden Age” rifles but using that definition simply replaces the first question with, “What is a Golden Age rifle?” For the answer to that I refer you to page 31 in the third chapter of Joe Kindig’s book Thoughts on the Kentucky Rifle in Its Golden Age (1960).

Rifles actually made before the Revolutionary War are certainly early, not to mention scarce, and most will agree that the term also applies to those made during and immediately after the war. If you agree with me on that loose definition of the term, any rifle made prior to ca. 1780-85 is an “early rifle.”

But there is more to the definition of an early style rifle than the year in which it was made. The previously mentioned chapter in Mr. Kindig’s book addresses many of the characteristics that define an early rifle””wide flat butt pieces, tapered and flared barrels, etc. Chapter 20 in Volume II of George Shumway,s Rifles of Colonial America (1980) looks more closely at the evolution of the art on longrifles with an eye toward the shift from baroque to rococo design elements. Both the form of the rifle and the art on it are part of what a collector refers to when he refers to a rifle as “early.”

For a modern builder who aspires to produce an early rifle, Virginia or otherwise, there is one simple rule for dating objects to keep in mind: no rifle can be earlier than the latest detail of its construction or decoration. Examples”” since “German silver” (a man made nickel-brass alloy) did not come into use until the end of the first quarter of the 19th century, a rifle with German silver mounts or inlays could not considered a historically correct 18th-century rifle. Likewise a Federal Eagle on an inlay or patch box dates the rifle to the mid-1780s or later. Those examples are simple and obvious. Learning to tell the difference between rococo and Neo-classical design elements requires more study but is every bit as important to doing historically correct work.

TVM makes good stuff but none of their offerings represent a rifle earlier than 1770 IMHO. The early Lancaster coming the closest and thats with nearly all the bells and whistles.
Here is a circa 1750 Rifle of English origin. Daniel Boone's first rifle was allegedly an English Short Rifle.
Link English short rifle Link Jim Chambers
Here is an early Moravian Rifle by builder Allen Martin. Link Moravian
Here is one of Clay Smith's Christain Springs
Link Clay Smith 1760s
Mike Brooks F&I rifle Link Brooks

Looking at the linked rifles I think you will see the architecture that a early rifle has.

TVM as I said makes a good general purpose rifle but if you truly want a really accurate representation of an early rifle, you may want to look at having one custom built or building one yourself. Building is another ball of wax in itself.
 
54ball said:
...or building one yourself.

That is the ultimate goal, but I'm a ways off yet. I thought I'd pick up an 'in the white' kit to start with and then later an intermediate kit before moving on to something more challenging.

In any event, this is more about moving from percussion to flintlock... My reasons for wanting something that fits into the F&I era is historical interest. But I'm not into re-enacting... Yet.
 
Tip is not a computer guy! Period!

Old school...I'd call after the Holiday...

Make sure you take the time to talk and listen..

Always enjoyed our conversations..
He has lots to say! :grin:



Contact Information
Contact Tip Curtis
Phone: 615-654-4445
Location: Cross Plains, TN 37049

I have one of his in the white rifles I like it lots.
 
Tip has good offerings. Jim Kibler has a wonderful in the white offering. If I didn't already have a .40 SMR flintlock........well.
TC
 
Anyone know what the wait time might be roughly for a TVM? Also does Tip also finish rifles for one who does not have the time or skill to do it himself? Thanks Al
 
one could likely finish an in the white in a weekend? They really are finish ready. As for skill, I think it would be wise to do a cheap kentucky traditions kit first but not a whole lotta skill? I would do it but i have done a few and have limited wood working skills and alot of interest. I likely buy an in the white when I get the boat docked.:hmm:
 
Al,
Yes Tip Curtis sells finished guns as well. I have handled several of his finished guns as well as seen the pictures posted by others. He does an excellent job on his rifles. He really takes pride in his work and it shows. I don't think you would be disappointed with one of his finished rifles. I think he goes to the NMLRA Western States Rendezvous in March.
JI
 
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