TVM's Western Fur Trade Rifle

[cowboysteve]

I'm wanting to order a new semi-custom flintlock, and ran across TVM's new offering "The Western Trade Rifle": http://www.tennesseevalleymuzzleloading.com/western-fur-trade-rifle
It looks like someting that will fit the bill for my western elk hunting and rendezvous reenactment. Has anyone seen one in person? If the reviews are positive, then it's on to the usual debates of .54 vs .58 and 36" vs 42". Thanks folks for the input.

 

[wattlebuster]

Looks to be a solid built rifle :thumbsup:

 

[Grenadier1758]

While it is not an exact copy of any specific Trade Rifle built for use in the western fur trade, it is certainly representative of the type of rifle used. As a representative gun, it do quite fine for Rendezvous activities.

I do recommend a few upgrades.

1. Get the swamped 42" barrel.
If you don't get the swamped barrel, get the 36" barrel.

2. Go with the brass hardware. As the rifle is used, the brass gets a nice dull patina and is not distracting for any hunting purposes.

 

[cowboysteve]

Thanks for the input. For use navigating through the woods during elk hunting I was leaning towards the 36" straight 1" barrel in .58 cal. That should make it fairly light. I don't think a 1 1/8" to 1" barrel is an option, but that would be sweet.

 

[rusty]

Grenadier is right on,I would definitely go with a swamped barrel,a 1"x36" barrel would be darn heavy to tote around ,many of the original fur trade rifles had swamped barrels.I have a copy of a JJ Henry Lancaster with a swamped 44" barrel and I like it,

 

[pjmcdonald]

I have not seen that particular rifle but I did have the pleasure of visiting the TVM shop a few weeks ago. Great outfit, good people, and they were very gracious to let me look around. Mr. Avance kindly showed me several rifles, built and in progress, and helped me understand some of the differences. I have ordered a Southern Mountain flintlock.

So, I can make no recommendations on your chosen style but I can attest that TVM is a quality outfit building some very nice rifles. The hard part for me now is the 6-8 month backlog!

PJ

 

[Cowboy]

cowboysteve,

That is a very nice looking muzzleloader! I could see myself owning one of those beauties. Also a lot of options are available for that rifle as well.

If you end up picking one up, keep us informed and of course the pics as well as your range report would be in order!

Thanks for sharing with us my friend!

Respectfully, Cowboy :thumbsup:

 

[Pete G]

If you want to have something that is close to historically correct the straight barrel is proper. Generally a swamped barrel gives better balance, but they were usually put on fancier guns of an early period. A shorter barrel will also help with this. A trade rifle was made to be a solid, economical every day rifle. Sort of like the farmer's single shot gun of today.

 

[timothy prouty]

HEY cowboysteve if you are looking for a good long rifle try track of the wolf and go to kits and do one of your own they got some nice kits in there

 

[Tom Compton]

I have a .54 w 1" x 32" bbl. A .58 1" x 36" should be fine.
TC

 

[Chowmif16]

Maybe I'm off base here, but that rifle doesn't look at all right to me. What do they mean by Western Fur Trade rifle? A rifle for fur traders, or a trade rifle for Indians during the fur trade? Either way, it doesn't look right.
That lock mortise is enormous. I mean, huge. And ugly. The butt stock and comb look vaguely Lancaster, and the rest is hard to tell.
I'm in no way an expert on fur trade rifles, or Indian trade rifles, but this looks like a cobbled together generic mess.

If you are going for a generic rifle that shoots well, this might be your gun, but I struggle to see
Where it fits in the historical sense.

My 2 cents.

Chowmi.

 

[Black Hand]

There appears to be far too much wood around the lock inlet - gives the gun an unfinished, clunky look.

 

[hanshi]

Considering the photo, the rifle doesn't do anything for me, either.

 

[cowboysteve]

Thanks for the various opinions guys. For those not familiar with fur trade era rifles, a JJ Henry Trade Rifle was a working man's rifle supplied to the American and Rocky Mtn Fur companies at the front end of the fur trade era. There are no kits or options to acquire a JJ Henry Trade Rifle, other than a high dollar custom. TVM's is a close attempt. For the cost, it's an option.

 

[rusty]

most trade rifles like those built by J.J Henry and many other's were of Late Lancaster in style,mostly maple but some were walnut also the wood used was more often than not plain and not much curl,barrels were often 42'' to 44'' long some swamped, some not,but the swamped barrels of the day were only slightly swamped not like our modern swamped barrels.brass hardware butt plate etc.but some were a mixture of brass and iron These were strong well-made rifles,trappers rifles, most seem to have had a 4 piece patch box often just finished to a fine file finish only,JJ henry often checkered the wrist of his stocks with a course diamond finish,hard to explain but still attractive and most had a single trigger.I think the Museum of the fur Trade still has the Trade Rifle Sketch Book,it would be worth getting and not very expensive.Hope this helps.

 

[cowboysteve]

Excellent post Rusty! I'm glad for your historical perspective on the JJ Henry Trade Rifle. This is the itch I'm trying to scratch.

 

[Chowmif16]

I will caveat this response with an admission that I know little to nothing of the sort of guns that were carried by the fur traders at various points in time, but I still think the following points are valid, so take them for what they are worth!

You seem to be looking for a flintlock, which would point to the early to middle years of the fur trade. Folks who left the east for the fur trade came from all backgrounds and all areas of the country, which would seem to give you license to choose a style that you like. Maybe an area that you are from, or that your ancestors were from?

I would guess that the majority of the fur traders were not wealthy when they set out, so a fine gun is not what you are looking for unless you want to emulate a successful trapper who picked up a nice rifle.

The point is, you could look at rifle styles from various areas and see what you like. It's more than likely that trappers came from that area and carried plain guns from there.

As an example, Jim Bridger started on an expedition in 1822 (around the end of the golden age of flintlocks) from St Louis and would have carried a flintlock probably from that area.

It's not in any way inconceivable that guys were carrying rifles from Pennsylvania, or Virginia etc as they went westward for the fur trade.

Unless you are wedded to a particular trade gun style, I think the world is your oyster here.

Just me, but If you are wanting a flintlock that might be carried by a trapper, at least get one that doesn't look so clunky.

Cheers,
Chowmi

 

[Grenadier1758]

I'm going to second the recommendation that you get a copy of the "Trade Rifle Sketch Book" by Hansen. I used it as a basis for building my Deringer Trade Rifle replica. The sketch book as full size drawings of actual trade rifles by Henry, Tryon, Deringer and others. Because these were meant to be robust rifles for the use by trappers in the western fur trade many of these will appear to be a bit clunky.

I had a 42 " tapered barrel that best fit the profile of the Deringer trade rifle of 1809. That's the rifle that I made.

 

[cowboysteve]

Thanks for the pic of the Derringer you built. I like the authentic touch of the brass wear plates on the ramrod channel. This type of repair was common due to the wear caused by extended rubbing against the saddle pommel.

 

[hanshi]

If you still like the TVM offering, I'd suggest you buy the kit so you could scrape off some of that excess wood, especially around the lock. I have several rifles from TVM but nothing remotely as "woody" as the rifle in that picture. TVM guns are high quality but the stocks can sometimes be too robust.