TVM's Western Fur Trade Rifle

[matt denison]

As an example, Jim Bridger started on an expedition in 1822 (around the end of the golden age of flintlocks) from St Louis and would have carried a flintlock probably from that area.


Nope, not even close. All assumptin' (as Brian Kieth would say) Bridger actually carried a J.J. Henry English Pattern much like the gun from TVM with the two piece military style patch box, distinctive side plate and trigger guard. Bridger eventually gave that gun away to his friend Kit Carson and it now hangs in the Kit Carson House and Museum in Taos, NM.

As a side note: The English pattern Henry has a distinct butt plate that is sort of tear drop shaped, wider at the bottom than at the top. No other guns that I am aware of have this feature. I'd like to see more pics. of the TVM gun to see if they captured this detail.

The J.J. Henry is very desireable among mountain man reenacters. Ron Paul is famous for producing them from the 1980's. If you can find one expect to pay thousands of dollars for it. It's about time someone started to build a commercial copy. This one isn't perfect but it isn't a bench copy either which would put it out of the financial reach of most of us.

I have a Henry English Pattern from Ron's parts, dead nutz copy of Kit's gun, have made the trip to Taos to photograph the original. Yeah, maybe a little obsessed :grin:

 

[cowboysteve]

Thanks Laffin for the info. I understand folks concern that it may appear a little "clubby", but a working piece carried on horseback would need to be robust. I'm definitely leaning towards pulling the trigger on it. Any thoughts on maple vs the walnut option for the stock?

 

[Cowboy]

I personally like the looks of it but the bottom line is if you like it and it seems that you do! That's all that matters my friend.

As far as what kind of wood to choose for your stock? I would ask myself the following question.

1. Is it going to be a range gun or for hunting? If your OCDC like me, the slightest little scratch can ruin your whole day! Especially with a nice Curly maple stock. Walnut I'm not so much concerned with a scratch or a ding. It gives it character .

In the end it really boils down to what you like and want for yourself. I think it would look great either way!

Let us know what you finally decide. I'm excited for you my friend! Good luck.

Respectfully, Cowboy :thumbsup:

 

[Snakebite]

I googled JJ Henry Trade Rifle and Fur Trade Rifle images and there were pictures of originals with lock areas very similar to the TVM gun, and a lot that were much thinner like may other longrifles.

Now I know the TOW picture of the Henry Leman trade rifle on the TOW website is a replica but it also has a lot of wood around the lock. I was interested in the wrist areas which on almost all, including the TVM look right, fairly slim.

So I guess that there may be no right or wrong when comparing this rifle to originals or reproductions. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder for sure.
:hatsoff:

 

[cowboysteve]

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder for sure", Boy! You've got that right. I guess it depends on where you live, and what period of history turns your crank. Out west we'd never dream of taking one of those slim, ornate eastern style rifles on a backcountry elk hunt.

 

[Elnathan]

Track of the Wolf has a very nice new book, "Rifles of the American Indians," by Gale, Ness, and Mikelson. All kinds of info, including multiple dimensions for barrel width so you can get an idea of which barrels were swamped and by how much, etc. Well worth your money if you are interested in trade rifles.

 

[cowboysteve]

Thanks for the heads up on the book. I hadn't seen it yet, so it looks like a call to Track is in order.

 

[Chowmif16]

As an example, Jim Bridger started on an expedition in 1822 (around the end of the golden age of flintlocks) from St Louis and would have carried a flintlock probably from that area.


Nope, not even close. All assumptin' (as Brian Kieth would say) Bridger actually carried a J.J. Henry English Pattern much like the gun from TVM with the two piece military style patch box, distinctive side plate and trigger guard. Bridger eventually gave that gun away to his friend Kit Carson and it now hangs in the Kit Carson House and Museum in Taos, NM.

As a side note: The English pattern Henry has a distinct butt plate that is sort of tear drop shaped, wider at the bottom than at the top. No other guns that I am aware of have this feature. I'd like to see more pics. of the TVM gun to see if they captured this detail. :

Laffindog,
Thank you for the correction, and I humbly admit that I was wrong. I learn something every day.
I will also admit that my interest and eye is focused on an entirely different style of gun, and I allowed my bias to speculate in order to recommend something more to my own personal preference.
Learning has occurred, and I have re-learned the value of this site.

Thanks for teaching me that there is more to learn.

Respectfully,
Chowmi

 

[Micah Clark]

Track of the Wolf sells a Kit Carson kit and a Jim Bridger kit, copies of their rifles. Both those men would be wester fur trade, mountain men. . .so the kit's would be about as historically correct as possible.

I own a TVM Late Lancaster kit, and I agree with all the positives about TVM. . .They are great people, and very helpful. They make a very good product.

 

[Micah Clark]

Another thought.

IF YOU LIKE THE LOOKS OF THE TVM FUR TRADE RIFLE, WHO CARES WHAT ANYONE ELSE SAYS.

However, if you think it is too chunky in some areas or shaped in a way you don't like you could order it "in the white" which is a finished built rifle, but not stained. Then you can shape the stock more with sandpaper and a file (if needed.) . . LMF stain is only about $15.

TVM's Fur Trade rifle is brand new . . .it is doubtful very many people have seen one in person.

 

[cowboysteve]

Carson's and Bridger's half stock Hawkens would represent the end of the fur trade era (mid 1830s to mid 1840s). I was looking for a copy of a typical rifle used at the early end of the fur trade (1820s-1830s). Both American Fur Co. and Rocky Mtn. Fur Co. contracted with firms like J Henry, Derringer and Leman to provide bulk quantities of rifles for transport to rendezvous for trade to trappers. Thanks for the suggestion though.

 

[lowcsp]

I built a couple of jj henry scrollguards. For The brass hardware I got them from The Rifle Shop as they were moulded from a original, and Rice is now making a copy of a jj henry 43" barrel that has the original profile, for the lock I would go with chambers late ketland and round the tail off so you can get pretty close to an original for around the same price by the time you start adding all there extras.

 

[cowboysteve]

Great looking rifle! Just what I'm looking forward to acquiring. I'm actually in discussions with an old friend in Oregon who's a dang fine builder. He's right in line with TVM's price with the extras, and will use Henry parts from The Rifle Shoppe. Only a six month wait too! Great minds run in the same channel. Thanks for the pics.

 

[In Over My Head]

Steve,

What caliber did you choose and how did you decide?

 

[cowboysteve]

Still bouncing back and forth between the two choices. Both have their advantages. The .54 shoots flatter, but the .58 has more wallop. I'll let you know.

 

[rusty]

I would go with a .58 it would sure smack those big bull elk down.and a .54 would work fine as well.

 

[rusty]

I I ever get another rifle built it will be a Deringer,I like his rifles a lot.