two barrel loops

[George]

Two of my guns have barrel loops (staples, lugs?.. what is the proper term for those, anyway?) which seem different from the way they are done these days. Maybe some would be interested in seeing them.

The first is on a contemporary rifle from the late 1960s:

The second is a lot older, late 18th century, probably, on a smooth rifle with an octagonal barrel:

Spence

 

[Joe Sullivan]

Those are Whosamajiggys :idunno:

 

[jdkerstetter]

Thanks for sharing Spence. This is one of the parts on originals we don't often get to see. Not sexy enough for pictures in the books. :wink:

I would say "barrel loops" in this case as they are dovetailed. Staples are generally installed in holes in the barrel which have the metal displaced to hold the ends of the staple in.

I have never seen any like the first set...but there were so many variations. I could be wrong but I would probably classify this as a perfect example of the ingenuity of America's mid 20th Century gun builders. Even with the benefit of the mass of resources we have now, sometimes we still have to "wing it" or guesstimate as we have no documentation of how some things were done by individual 'smiths.

The second set looks like well executed original work. I'd like to know how they were made, i.e. one piece or two...it's hard to tell....I'd assume one, but? I like how the tool marks were left showing exactly how the metal was upset to tighten the dovetail and to spread the base. Gotta love Gunsmith archeology! :thumbsup:

Thanks again for sharing. Enjoy, J.D.

 

[George]

I'd like to know how they were made, i.e. one piece or two...it's hard to tell....I'd assume one, but?

I don't have it in hand at the moment, but larger pictures of it in my file make it look as though it's two, a loop staked into a plate which is then dovetailed into the barrel. Here's another loop with a better angle.

Spence

 

[jdkerstetter]

Could have been. If so, then it was most likely put through holes in the sheet stock then peened over into countersinks on the other side then the whole thing installed in the dovetail. It would be a very secure arangement. Interesting. :hmm:

Thanks again, J.D.

 

[Zonie]

I call them "underlugs" or "barrel lugs" for what it's worth.

I really like the pictures that prove beyond doubt that deforming the dovetail to lock in the barrel lug isn't a new idea and has been used in the past.

 

[George]

I really like the pictures that prove beyond doubt that deforming the dovetail to lock in the barrel lug isn't a new idea and has been used in the past.

Yeah, and they gave it a good whack, didn't they?

Spence

 

[Zonie]

A couple of good whacks.

I know we've told newbys to do this and many of them act like we are telling them to drive a stake thru their barrels heart and ask if they couldn't glue it instead.

Of course, some modern glues or epoxies might last for years but when the gunsmith uses some of these old time methods of locking things together they can easily last for hundreds of years.

 

[talkingamoeba]

Looks as though the blows were landed with intention, not just a "pound on it till it's stuck" approach :grin: There appear to be a progression of strikes with either a rounded chisel or a fine crosspean like the type used to draw out the edge on a scythe. Starting further away from the edge of the dovetail and drawing metal toward the dovetail, 3 strikes at each corner. Drawn at an angle to the bore, not a straight down pound on it approach. Skilled and effective :thumbsup:

I'm referring to the second post and photo Spence put up. The other one looks like he just belted it :grin:

 

[rich pierce]

Approximately when was the originsl (second) gun made and did it use a pin or wedge to fasten the barrel?

On the first one the dovetail looks quite deep.

 

Wow... very cool. I have a strange taste for pie (or is it Pi) after looking at the first one. Very strange.

It's strange that we go to the lengths to make our lugs look perfect, and yet when you look at these older guns, the gunsmith was more interested in making it functional vs sexy.

Thanks for sharing.

jvn

 

[George]

Approximately when was the originsl (second) gun made and did it use a pin or wedge to fasten the barrel

The age of the barrel is a question I can't answer with certainty. At least 1820, probably a fair bit older. Look at this thread:
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/274751/post/1217655/hl//fromsearch/1/

The barrel is fastened with wedges.

On the first one the dovetail looks quite deep.

This barrel also uses wedges. Notice that the wedge slides into the dovetail and so is below the surface of the barrel, not above it as is the usual case.

Spence