Typical small belt-knife of a Voyageur...

[TFoley]

I'm sure that there is no need for me to describe what a Voyageur was engaged in during the first couple of hundred years that Canada was being brought into the world. I discovered in an earlier post on another section of this great forum that he need not necessarily even had carried much by way of firearms, but for sure he would have had a small belt knife. If anybody here can point me in the direction of a illustration of such an typical item, then it is possible that one of our members here can make me a replica.

TIA.

 

[Flintlock]

Google French trade knives.

 

[Notchy Bob]

@Runewolf1973 is your man. He knows his knives, and he knows how to make them.

The Museum of the Fur Trade Quarterly (MOFTQ) had an entire issue devoted to the voyageurs a few years ago. I can look it up if you’re interested, as all of their back issues are still available.

I think the typical voyager carried two or three knives. A straightforward boucheron would be a good place to start, I would think. A French-styled folding knife would also be a likely candidate, but it may be more of a challenge to find one of those. You might think an Opinel would fit, but I believe these actually date to the late 19th century.

An archaeologist named Garrad did extensive studies of early French trade knives (and axes) and wrote several monographs on these. Google “petun trade knives” to find them.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[TFoley]

'The Museum of the Fur Trade Quarterly (MOFTQ) had an entire issue devoted to the voyageurs a few years ago. I can look it up if you’re interested, as all of their back issues are still available.'

I'd be very grateful if you could do that for me. Hopefully I'd be able to download the reference.

Many thanks.

 

[Brokennock]

Seek out Ken Hamilton.
He can be found on the ALR and on Instagram. He has some great posts on the subject if you dig through the archives of topics on the old Frontier Folk Forum.

 

[Notchy Bob]

I'm sure that there is no need for me to describe what a Voyageur was engaged in during the first couple of hundred years that Canada was being brought into the world. I discovered in an earlier post on another section of this great forum that he need not necessarily even had carried much by way of firearms, but for sure he would have had a small belt knife. If anybody here can point me in the direction of an illustration of such a typical item, then it is possible that one of our members here can make me a replica.

I think the typical voyager carried two or three knives. A straightforward boucheron would be a good place to start, I would think. A French-styled folding knife would also be a likely candidate, but it may be more of a challenge to find one of those. You might think an Opinel would fit, but I believe these actually date to the late 19th century.

I was thinking of this when I knocked out my initial response to this question:

The illustration is from an article about the 1745 Seige of Louisbourg in a back issue of Man At Arms magazine. However, the fellows in the image are French irregulars, and not necessarily voyageurs.

In rethinking my first response, I may have spoken out of turn. I think it is understood that the voyageurs, generally speaking, were French Canadian, Metis, or native. They were essentially the "grunts" of the northern fur trade, manning the boats and canoes by water, and packing loads on their backs overland for the trading companies and sometimes for private travelers and adventurers. They were engages, or employees, of primarily British owned corporations. As such, they would very likely have been outfitted by their employers, suggesting the possibility of carrying English-made equipment. I was reminded of this when I leafed through Dr. James Hanson's Voyager's Sketchbook last night, and found this illustration:

I still don't necessarily think a French boucheron, or "woodsman's knife," would be out of place, but I believe a common British scalper or "roach-belly" knife would be equally plausible.

I would recommend that you go to the Museum of the Fur Trade's Museum Shop, and order the following:

The Voyager's Sketchbook, by Dr. James Hanson. I can't believe they are still selling these for $8.00.

I would also recommend two back issues of the Museum of the Fur Trade Quarterly. These issues are Volume 36, No. 2, Summer 2000, which was entirely written and illustrated by the late Francis Back, and was devoted to the voyageurs and coureurs des bois of New France, and Volume 45, Nos. 1/2, Spring/Summer 2009, which is a double issue consisting of "The Voyageur's Exhibition Catalog," profusely illustrated with photographs of voyageur-related artifacts along with informative text. You won't find much specifically about knives in either of those, but they may be helpful.

I don't think any of these are available in a downloadable format. However, the double back issue costs $9.95 and the single issue is five bucks. Add in the Sketchbook, and for about $25.00, you can get a handy reference library started.

Back to the original question, this is a very accurate replica of a boucheron:

That one was made by Wick Ellerbe and the photo is from his website, but I have one of his knives that is exactly like it. Mine may even be that one. the handle or haft is boxwood.

Here are some accurate reproductions of British scalping knives:

From top to bottom, these were made by Wick Ellerbe, Kyle Willyard of Old Dominion Forge, Randy Wolfe of Bethel Forge, and Ken Hamilton. Handles, top to bottom, are pernambuco, redheart, rosewood, and (I think) cocobolo.

This one didn't make it into the group photo, but it was made by @Runewolf1973 :

This knife by Runewolf is based on an original by FURNISS of Sheffield. The handle is padauk.

Hopefully, you'll get some more responses and we can all learn something.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[TFoley]

I was thinking of this when I knocked out my initial response to this question:

View attachment 121866

The illustration is from an article about the 1745 Seige of Louisbourg in a back issue of Man At Arms magazine. However, the fellows in the image are French irregulars, and not necessarily voyageurs.

In rethinking my first response, I may have spoken out of turn. I think it is understood that the voyageurs, generally speaking, were French Canadian, Metis, or native. They were essentially the "grunts" of the northern fur trade, manning the boats and canoes by water, and packing loads on their backs overland for the trading companies and sometimes for private travelers and adventurers. They were engages, or employees, of primarily British owned corporations. As such, they would very likely have been outfitted by their employers, suggesting the possibility of carrying English-made equipment. I was reminded of this when I leafed through Dr. James Hanson's Voyager's Sketchbook last night, and found this illustration:

View attachment 121867

I still don't necessarily think a French boucheron, or "woodsman's knife," would be out of place, but I believe a common British scalper or "roach-belly" knife would be equally plausible.

I would recommend that you go to the Museum of the Fur Trade's Museum Shop, and order the following:

View attachment 121868

The Voyager's Sketchbook, by Dr. James Hanson. I can't believe they are still selling these for $8.00.

I would also recommend two back issues of the Museum of the Fur Trade Quarterly. These issues are Volume 36, No. 2, Summer 2000, which was entirely written and illustrated by the late Francis Back, and was devoted to the voyageurs and coureurs des bois of New France, and Volume 45, Nos. 1/2, Spring/Summer 2009, which is a double issue consisting of "The Voyageur's Exhibition Catalog," profusely illustrated with photographs of voyageur-related artifacts along with informative text. You won't find much specifically about knives in either of those, but they may be helpful.

I don't think any of these are available in a downloadable format. However, the double back issue costs $9.95 and the single issue is five bucks. Add in the Sketchbook, and for about $25.00, you can get a handy reference library started.

Back to the original question, this is a very accurate replica of a boucheron:

View attachment 121869

That one was made by Wick Ellerbe and the photo is from his website, but I have one of his knives that is exactly like it. Mine may even be that one. the handle or haft is boxwood.

Here are some accurate reproductions of British scalping knives:

View attachment 121870

From top to bottom, these were made by Wick Ellerbe, Kyle Willyard of Old Dominion Forge, Randy Wolfe of Bethel Forge, and Ken Hamilton. Handles, top to bottom, are pernambuco, redheart, rosewood, and (I think) cocobolo.

This one didn't make it into the group photo, but it was made by @Runewolf1973 :

View attachment 121871

This knife by Runewolf is based on an original by FURNISS of Sheffield. The handle is padauk.

Hopefully, you'll get some more responses and we can all learn something.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

Many thanks for taking all that trouble - I really appreciate the time it took you to assemble all that information. There is a poster on this site who makes knives of this style, and Ill be asking him to craft something along these lines.

I'll try and get ahold of that sketchbook - not holding out much hope in that direction since the vast majority of US-based businesses are having nothing to do with UK customers at the present time.

 

[TFoley]

Seek out Ken Hamilton. He can be found on the ALR and on Instagram. He has some great posts on the subject if you dig through the archives of topics on the old Frontier Folk Forum.

ALR? Explication, please.

 

[necchi]

I think (american) it's against the rules (long) here to post info about (rifles) other bp/ml forums.

 

[Brokennock]

ALR? Explication, please.

What @necchi said.

 

[Notchy Bob]

I'll try and get ahold of that sketchbook - not holding out much hope in that direction since the vast majority of US-based businesses are having nothing to do with UK customers at the present time.

That is unfortunate, and I don't understand the issue. As a matter of fact, over the past few months, I have contacted two dealers of shooting supplies in Britain who had some powder flasks I have been unable to locate in the USA. One of these vendors was Henry Krank & Co., and the other was The Devizes Gunsmith. Both advised me that they could not ship to the USA. So, I guess it works both ways. I thought our governments had cordial relations and were trading partners.



Anyway, I see no harm in contacting the Museum of the Fur Trade to ask if you can order. Their website shows that they do accept both the Euro and the Pound Sterling as currency, in addition to the American dollar.

As for scalping knives, there are certainly knifemakers on this forum who can fix you up. However, J. Adams Ltd., of Sheffield, still makes a 6 1/2 Inch Replica Scalping Knife, if that's the knife you want:

This is a later 19th century style, but in all respects is very similar to one shown in an article about scalping knives in a back issue of the MOFTQ. The maker does not identify the wood species used for the handle, though.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[Omahkapi'si]

Not many forums you can go to and get help and knowledge like some of these folks here.

 

[user 48679]

I'm sure that there is no need for me to describe what a Voyageur was engaged in during the first couple of hundred years that Canada was being brought into the world. I discovered in an earlier post on another section of this great forum that he need not necessarily even had carried much by way of firearms, but for sure he would have had a small belt knife. If anybody here can point me in the direction of a illustration of such an typical item, then it is possible that one of our members here can make me a replica.

http://laprairie-voyageur-canoes.blogspot.com/2019/06/voyageurs-coureurs-des-bois-and-their.html

 

[necchi]

I was thinking of this when I knocked out my initial response to this question:

All of that post was indeed well presented,
I second a Thank you for taking the time to share that info,

 

[Runewolf1973]

Probably something like this French boucheron... Historically accurate and based on drawings of an original.

 

[TFoley]

What @necchi said.

Apparently there is a website called American Long Rifles that deals specifically with that entire genre of firearms.

 

[toot]

OPENEL, I wonder if PASQUENEL, carried one. any one remember him?

 

[Packrat]

I believe OPENEL didn't start knives until 1890

 

[Brokennock]

Apparently there is a website called American Long Rifles that deals specifically with that entire genre of firearms.

Really?!!

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

... but for sure he would have had a small belt knife.

Just ONE????
It would take me along while to find it but they never took to the woods without 3 knives on them. I have the Ken Hamilton 'belt knnife', as well as the folder that was also tucked into a leg sash. The 3rd knife carried was a smallfixed blade neck knife.

BTW, I don't know whom termed them 'small, but may I sugest that the belt knives may only be 'small' in relation to the larger long 'Rifleman's knives' that much later Longhunters were known of wearing, ala Mark Baker's writings.