Uberti 1847 Walker vs. 1858 New Army

[HatchetJaque]

My neighbor and I have decided we want to do some black powder shooting. I'm interested in a rifle and have decided upon a Lyman Great Planes .54 caplock as my first smoke-pole. My neighbor is interested in a cap & ball revolver and was initially considering the Uberti 1858 Remington New Army .44, but now we're both thinking the 1847 Walker from the same maker is a pretty interesting looking piece too.

Any input as to the pros/cons of either pistol for a greenhorn shooter?

 

[poordevil]

The Walker is a great gun and lots of history....But it weighs close to 5 pounds! :shocked2: But very few pistols are even near as powerful. Get it!

p

 

[CaptainKirk]

Honestly, I think your neighbor would be much happier overall with the New Army. I love the Walker myself, and have it or a Dragoon on my "soon-to-buy list", but it is a heavy mammoth (they didn't call 'em horse pistols for nothing!) and as a choice as an "only gun", I wouldn't pick it....I can say that with relative impunity, because I already own 3 other BP pistols, one which is a New Army. You can't wear a Walker on a gun belt without pulling down your pants, so they say, and the weight and bulk make it impractical to lug around. (As a range gun, it would probably be fine)
Buy the New Army first; see how you like shooting The Holy Black before committing to something like a Walker.

 

[Poor Private]

The initial cost of the Walker will be significantly more $100-$200 depending on the models, than the 58 Remy. The cost of operation of the Remy will be less also since it uses less powder per shot. And I think the ease of repair and parts will be less also. If your out for just target shooting, and the 58 Remington will do just fine. I your looking for something to make a big bang to impress your fellow shooters and to feel Macho at the range, and to use in hunting the Walker can't hardly be beat. But if your doing lots of walking around with the pistol on your hip be ready to carry some weight, the Walker weighs in at 4# and the Remington at 2 3/4#. It all comes down to users choice. Or you can do what alot of us fellers do buy several different styles, and types :thumbsup: .

 

[cgn71]

yes get both, then you'll know you made the right choice :wink:

Chad

 

[m-g willy]

The Walker was one of the first revolvers (Patterson was first) to make the scene.
And with it was problems that were worked out on later revolvers.
Colt seen these problems and worked to improve them with 3 models of Dragoons, each model being improved from the last model.
I have a Walker , 3rd. model Dragoon,1860 Colt Army , 1851 Colt Navy and the 1858 Remington Army.
I like the handeling of the Colts the best.
Some folks like the Remmingtons better.
The best thing to do is see if you can handle all of them before makeing your choise.

 

[mykeal]

The Walker is a great deal of fun to shoot, BUT - it's not for a greenhorn bp shooter. Get the 1858 Remington and learn how to shoot a bp revolver; he'll enjoy the Walker - and bp shooting - a lot more if he starts with the Remington.

 

[m-g willy]

The Walker was one of the first revolvers (Patterson was first) to make the scene.
And with it was problems that were worked out on later revolvers.
Colt seen these problems and worked to improve them with 3 models of Dragoons, each model being improved from the last model.
I have a Walker , 3rd. model Dragoon,1860 Colt Army , 1851 Colt Navy and the 1858 Remington Army.
I like the handeling of the Colts the best.
Some folks like the Remmingtons better.
The best thing to do is see if you can handle all of them before makeing your choise.

 

[HatchetJaque]

The best thing to do is see if you can handle all of them before making your choice.

That would be ideal, but our area (San
Francisco Bay Area) is not very gun-friendly. I've been enquiring about area shops that cater to BP shooting and so far I've come up with zilch... gonna go check out a gun show in the neighborhood next weekend, but reckon that we both are gonna have to make our decisions and complete our purchases via mail-order if we're gonna do this. Would prefer to give the business to a local shop, but it seems where gun shops are rare they only cater to modern cartridge arms...

Thanks for the input from everyone, as I suspected, the Remington seems like the more user friendly choice for a newcomer. A question: are there any fatigue issues with the "open top" revolvers? I.E., is one likely to wear out or break with a moderate amount of shooting?

 

[rafterob]

With the steel frame revolvers metal fatigue is not an issue, brass framed are more susceptible. I am of the Remmy persuasion, but many are fans of the Colt. I think the Remington is a little more user friendly. Black powder shops are few and far between so typically mail order works for most of us. Try to buy as much of your accessories as you can afford up front because you will pay shipping and some companies have a minimum shipping charge to watch out for. I would also recommend the two of you split a bulk purchase of Black powder. Typically at 25 lbs. you get the best deal and 12 lbs. each would last you probably 2 years. It will last forevever so storage isn't an issue.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

The Walker is a great deal of fun to shoot, BUT - it's not for a greenhorn bp shooter. Get the 1858 Remington and learn how to shoot a bp revolver; he'll enjoy the Walker - and bp shooting - a lot more if he starts with the Remington.

Excellent post!

The following is for the original poster: And I'll just add one more consideration: If you want to start with a Colt replica, also look at the 1860 Army by Uberti. My son's example is the Charcoal Blue model with the fluted cylinder. Nice, pretty, and light weight! It's a real tack-driver with 27 grains of 3Fg Goex, a wonder-wad, and a .454 Hornady ball! I shoot it in Qualifications out to 50 yards using just strong-hand only. This particular model revolver seems to be made to a higher standard, and they're really tight out of the box, with superior fit and finish! There are three guys who have these wheelguns in our League, and every one of them can hit right out of the box!

The Walker is for folks who want to be noticed, like me :shocked2: :grin: , and don't worry about finding a holster, cause Cabela's has them and they're inexpensive and work great. Just tighten your belt a little when you strap-on that 4 3/4 pounder :haha: . Seriously though, it's better to start with something that's a good shooter and light enough to get used to shooting the Holy Black. Eventually, you'll be like the rest of us and have to buy 'em all :rotf:

Dave

 

[poordevil]

As I am sure you know, the Cow Plaice has, or used to have gun shows and I went to one in San Jose a long time ago.

Yes, a more modern sized pistol will be more user friendly. The Remington will last forever.

P

 

[CaptainKirk]

I've not heard of any weakness problems from shooting the open-top steel-frame Colts. I have heard of them being sprung from damage (dropping, etc)
The Colts (especially the 1851 Navy) seem to point better and have a better balance feel, overall. The 1860 Army grip is larger, and allows for a full grip with larger hands. I personally like to curl my pinky under the grip, so the smaller grips on the Navy and Remmy feel better to me.
The Remmy is the winner, hands-down for ease of cylinder removal..less than two seconds. No barrel wedge to pull, no tools needed...pop the pin and slide it out. Very handy when a cap is wedged behind the cylinder!
I would try to find a friend who might let you handle one or more of the models mentioned...there's no way to experience feel over the internet. Best of luck in your search!

 

[HatchetJaque]

Eventually, you'll be like the rest of us and have to buy 'em all :rotf:

Dave

Yep, I can see that a collection of BP arms will eventually form. I'm already guilty of accumulating vintage motorcycles and vintage cars and there are different aspects to each example in my stable that I enjoy. Though I have yet to order my Lyman GPR (waiting to see if anything crops up at the Cow Palace show next weekend!) I'm already thinking about my NEXT rifle and that I'll probably end up "needing" a revolver, too!

Appreciate all the advice on a good starter pistol and I'll keep y'all updated on the outcome...

Regards-HW

 

[gordy]

AS most have said , the Rem would probably be better to start with , and then go for the Walker . :hmm: Of corse if being HC PC is not a consideration the ROA is built the best and strongest of any BP revolver on the market !
I like the feel of the open top Colts and have owned both the Ruger , and the Colt 1860 army in .44cal. I've only handled the Walker (never shot one ) I still prefer the smaller Coltrs .
The brasas framed models are cheaper , and if you stuck to light to moderate loads , I doubt that you would ever shoot one loose . TThe truth of the matter is , if you get one BP wheel gun you'll wind up with more . Never can have too many
Right now I'm into single shot pistols , but still love shooting the wheel guns. :thumbsup:

 

[nkbj]

Aint 'nother wrong with the Walker 'cept maybe the short length of pull. :wink:

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Good luck with the search and let us know how you do!

Dave

 

[CaptainKirk]

Eventually, you'll be like the rest of us and have to buy 'em all :rotf:

Dave

Yep, I can see that a collection of BP arms will eventually form. I'm already guilty of accumulating vintage motorcycles and vintage cars and there are different aspects to each example in my stable that I enjoy. Though I have yet to order my Lyman GPR (waiting to see if anything crops up at the Cow Palace show next weekend!) I'm already thinking about my NEXT rifle and that I'll probably end up "needing" a revolver, too!

Appreciate all the advice on a good starter pistol and I'll keep y'all updated on the outcome...

Regards-HW

Oh no.....another victim of the dreaded CMD (classic motorcycle disease)
I hope I didn't spread the virus when I joined this forum. The Dr. said I was no longer contageous, but that must not be true. I had a relapse today and called dibs on an '83 VF750F Interceptor project...and I'm not even finished with the project I bought in November!
All I can say, is it seriously cuts into my BP and reloading budget...and it is incurable. :surrender:

 

[David Teague]

It really depends on the size of your friends hands and his strength.

As already pointed out, the Walker is a 5 pound beast and it has 'issues' as a first model weapon.
The loading level will drop each shot and has to be returned to under the barrel each time. While I have friends who have owned Walkers in the past, I've never been a big fan of them myself.

The Dragoon is an improved Walker, the Second or Third models are the ones to buy as the First model had issues that were corrected in the Second. If he wants a BIG Colt style revolver, this would be a nice compromise... Unless he has a small hand like me. I got rid of my 2nd Model Dragoon years ago as it was too heavy and big to be fun to shoot.

I'm not a fan of the Remington style of revolvers, never have liked them or owned one so I'll let those who own and shoot them sing their praises as I'm not qualified.

I like the smaller Colts, the 51 and 61 Navies are a dream to shoot and have a natural "pointabillity" that the other revolvers lack (including the 1860 Army).

The 1860 Army is the best compromise of power (44 cal) and size and is a favorite of most guys with a large hand.

You can use any capping tool with a Colt style revolver, but the Remington has to be capped by hand... a slow process that can kill the joy in my eyes.

I shoot my Colts one handed so the weight issue is an issue, if your friend is planning on using a modern 2 handed stance weight wont matter "quite" as much, but remember this... my CAR 15 only weights a pound & a half more than that Walker. :shocked2:

A related vid for your amusement. Note the 100 cap capper on the bench :wink: You can shoot a 36 rather cheaply vs the larger revolvers.
[youtube]qJOet6W6JL0[/youtube]

 

[HellifIknow]

The Walker is a beast. I have TWO!
One thing about the Walker: It is HEAVY.
If you have weak wrists you will tire shooting it much quicker than the lighter '58.

It does eat powder a lot faster than a '58.
Accuracy is the same with either.
Either one requires the same care/cleaning.
You couldn't go wrong with either.
Just really depends on which suits your tastes.