Uberti 1849 Pocket Range Day, with Chrono Results.

[PastorB]

Took my rarely used Uberti 1849 to the range today. When you read my results and trials and tribulations with it, you will understand why it is rarely used. I have made all the mods recommended, heavier mainspring, after market nipples, etc. I know as I write that, someone who is more knowledgeable than me is going to criticize my methods and results, and tell me how to fix my problems. I have been doing the cap and ball thing since 1977, more than most, less than a few. If you are here to tell me how ignorant I am, and how you would do it better, let's just save time and I'll admit that you are vastly superior to me in every facet of life. With that being said, I'll now share my observations about my gun, and my results. If you get better results, you are blessed.

All loads were shot with .330 round ball (the factory recommended size for my gun) I cast from pure lead in an ancient single cavity Lee mold. I know about factory .330 buckshot, it is made with a hard alloy that is exceedingly difficult to load with that stubby lever. My 1849 Pocket has a 4" barrel. I used black powders subs, Pyro P and RS, and Triple 7 3f. I have shot real black in this gun before, but now I save that diminishing supply for my flinters. For the record, Goex 3f is weaker than Pyro RS in my guns, and Pyro P is equivalent to Swiss 3f over my chrono in just about every gun I test. Today, as usual with this gun, I had many cap jams, despite all the mods. Very rarely was I able to fire two consecutive shots. Yes, I am aware of the "Colt Flip". This gun, and it's litter mate, the Uberti 1862 Police just plain suck in this regard. With many of my shots today, the loading lever also fell. I so desperately want this guy to work. I like the look and feel, and it would be a great little gun for hiking, fishing, etc. if it would just work! Maybe the original Colts were better in this regard, or maybe they sold a ton of them just because they are handy, and a gun is better than no gun. My 1849 is an accurate little gun, I can place lethal shots at 50 yards with it, one handed, when it decides to fire. I used CCI #11 and Remington #10 caps with equally dismal results, so it is not a cap issue. With all that being said, I will just copy and paste the raw data from my field notes. I also brought along a Pietta 1851 Navy in .44. Firing that big reliable gun is a pleasure after suffering through the trials of the Pocket Model. Zero malfunctions with it. All loads were lubed with my standard, Crisco, over the ball.

1849 Pocket .31 4" barrel .330 rb. CCI #11

15 gr. 777

800
820
808
839
803

18 gr. 777 CCI#11

957
932
905
1005
943
975
961
963

18 gr. Pyro P Rem. #10 caps

856
895
904
889
889

15 gr. Pyro P. Rem. #10 Caps

759
753
740
743
764

15 gr. Pyro RS. Cci #11

748
731
722
729
726

18 Pyro RS. Cci #11

933
902
884
856
849

 

[ppg1949]

Thanks for your info and effort.

 

[45D]

Yep, those small 5 shooters are typically "jam - o - matics". A cap post goes a long way to remedy that problem.

Mike

 

[Brokenbear]

Thanks ..nice write up

Bear

 

[45D]

Just some "general information" for anyone to ponder.
Smaller revolver actions have to be more accurate (mechanically). Five shot versions even more so.
Your thumb is the only source of power for the revolver. That's why making an action "lighter" ( easier) allows more of the available energy to be delivered to the cylinder "carry up". That's why heavy bolt springs, hand springs and especially main springs are detrimental to the available force to rotate the cylinder.
With a cap gun, the rotation of the cylinder with some authority allows the spent cap to be thrown clear. Any hesitation in cycling can allow any spent caps / cap frags to bind the cylinder. So, even though it may seem counter intuitive, it's better to use force to CYCLE the action than to overcome over sprung actions.

That then leads to the need for the action to be of sufficient "fitment" to not allow throw-by and have a solid lockup.

This post isn't directed at any particular poster and is offered as general information only.

Mike

 

[Stantheman86]

The Uberti small frame pocket revolvers are notorious for being finicky because everything is downsized and shrunken down to make them smaller. The arbor of my 1862 Pocket Navy looks minuscule compared to my Walker.

I don't know if it's a case of, Colt got them right and Uberti struggles with their copies, or maybe little pocket blackpowder percussion revolvers are just inherently less reliable, and the vast majority of original users carried them loaded and reloading was never a plan.....and here we are in the 2020s trying to target shoot and run numerous cylinders through a gun never designed for this...

All I plan to do with my Pocket Navy is add Slixshot nipples so I can use CCI #11 caps and 777 . Sometimes the cylinder doesn't time up correctly if it's in a certain position but if I start out with the hammer down on a nipple or in between chambers, it's fine

Truth be told, Colt DA revolvers have finicky actions too and my Colt Detective Special will drop the hammer in between chambers if I don't pull the trigger in one continuous stroke. No "staging". Colt experts simply say "that's a Colt, pull the trigger like it's designed to be pulled and it works . Play around and it won't work"

So....some Colts are just haunted, maybe you'll crack the code on this one and you'll have to use it an exact certain way with a certain load, and that's it. Some of the Colt repros are like this too.....my Dance and Brother has to be be hammer down , on a nipple , to cock for the next shot or there's a "hitch" that requires me to kinda finesse the hammer. It's slowly going away, so I just use the gun like it likes to be used.

We have to work with this reproduction of 1840s technology which was early revolver technology with fragile actions to begin with. There's a reason why technology advanced away from these.

 

[45D]

Ha!!!!!
Nothing wrong with the technology, everything is from modern attempts at reproduction.

They can be made to run . . .

 

[Super_Trouper]

What aftermarket nipples are you using? Also, have you deburred the face and safety notch on the hammer?

I understand the thought process of a heavier mainspring keeping the hammer from being blown back by gases escaping the flash hole, but it seems unnecessary on proper aftermarket nipples with smaller flash holes. I also imagine the heavier springs could possible cause caps to break apart even worse just from sheer force of them being pounded against the edges of the nipple.

I can also agree from my experience with 45D that a swift snap of the action when cocking seems to help alleviate caps/pieces of caps from falling into the action compared to slowly pulling the hammer back.

Lastly, a cap post installed could be a last resort that may help.

Just some external views. Hope you get it running properly!

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

What happened to the FPS info for black powder?

 

[Felonious]

Did you notice any differences in ignition reliability between Pyrodex and 777?

 

[45D]

Ha!!!!!
Nothing wrong with the technology, everything is from modern attempts at reproduction.

They can be made to run . . .

I'm pretty sure a pocket model (1849) was the top seller of all percussion Colts.
If they didn't work, that wouldn't be the case.

Mike

 

[Stantheman86]

Did you notice any differences in ignition reliability between Pyrodex and 777?

I was also curious

I found 777 to sometimes have a little lag when lighting off

 

[CaptainVane]

Old thread, don’t know if still relevant. Last month I won/stole 1848 Colt .31 Uberti on gunbroker. Mint condition, $240. Somebody said finicky. Same words i been using. It started as an exercise in range frustration. But ive been determined to get it to work. Getting there after a couple of weeks at range. Replacing stock nipples with Slikshots improved cap jams immensely. With Remington 10. I shoot T7 3F. At 40 yards. Which is WAY beyond what this is made for but i love a challenge. So here what i FB group posted other day….
Went range today with only the .31 to focus on. To answer above questions.
Load 10g, put on 15g spout and wasn’t enough room for balls and wads. Maybe for ball and grease but i prefer wads.
Ball size .320
Wedge, as it fouls I loosen it a hair and delays having to do bench cleaning for a few more cylinders.
I got surprisingly good at 40 yards today, even got one in the red center. Don’t know if just lucky or Dead-Eye ****.
POI is not same as POA, had to aim about, guessing here, 6” below and 4” right of POI. But once i can get it consistently the difference between the 2 I’ll be deadly, well as deadly as a .31 can be.
Will say, it’s improving to point I wouldnt wanna be a bad guy on receiving end at 40 yards.
PS. It will take an act of god to get 5 shots in a 3” group and i aint that blessed. So I’ll be happy with 5 in a man size chest on target.
PSS. Most of shots were taken with elbows resting on range table, 2 hands on pistol. I did a few offhand standing shots, not bad.
PSSS. I find that putting my left index finger on front of trigger guard and applying very slight pressure, it tends to prevent the kick to the left at recoil. Very slight, like just enough to not let pistol to kick left.
So bottom line is, from day one my 1851 Colt Navy has been dead on amazingly accurate to the point that smokless powder guys at range were amazed.
But it’s almost too easy.
This little pistol has me determined to find the sweet spot, after somewhere between 200 and 300 shots i am getting real close.
Going back Tuesday to keep improving.
Hope I didn’t bore yall.
PS. The tolerances on this little pistol are much tighter than on my Colt and Remington.36. After about 6 cylinder rounds, cycling is difficult, requiring a quick wipe down of arbor, barrel face, recoil shield with some Hoppes 9. These little things like to be clean.

 

[CaptainVane]

Smaller revolver actions have to be more accurate (mechanically). Five shot versions even more so.
With a cap gun, the rotation of the cylinder with some authority allows the spent cap to be thrown clear. Any hesitation in cycling can allow any spent caps / cap frags to bind the cylinder. So, even though it may seem counter intuitive, it's better to use force to CYCLE the action

This is exactly what i have found with my .31. Quick works better than slow. Slow jams. Not always. But mostly.

 

[45D]

This is exactly what i have found with my .31. Quick works better than slow. Slow jams. Not always. But mostly.

Yessir, the factory "it functions" isn't normally conducive to fast operation of the action for any length of time.

Mike

 

[bpd303]

I used CCI #11 and Remington #10 caps with equally dismal results,

I had the same problems with caps jamming with all my cap & ball revolvers Colt & Remington, except the Rogers & Spencer. What solved my problem was switching to RWS 1075 caps. With them a cap jam is a rare event (not that it doesn't happen occasionally) especially with the Colt's.
I don't know if the Germans use a different steel in their caps or what. As a foot note I have some very old caps of different brands that never jam.

 

[CaptainVane]

Just got back from range with my ‘48 .31, shot about 50, most missed the splattrburst man size target at 40 yards. I was determined to get accurate with this thing at distance, i love a challenge, I give up, just wasting powder and caps at that distance, accuracy at 40 yards is never gonna happen.
Dont get me wrong, I love this little pistol, but for distance shooting I’ll just use the Colt and Rem .36.

 

[CaptainVane]

After another month at range, I officially give up on this little pistol. Anything beyond 20 ft is a waste of caps, balls, and powder. it will never be an accurate shooter at any distance,.
Cant get thru a full cycle (5 shots) without some version of cap jam. Tried Rem #10, #11, RWS1075, doesnt matter although the Rem #10 seems to work best. 10 grains T7 3F.
This pistol was never meant to have any distance accuracy. it was meant to inform a card cheat on other side of table that you had enough of his guff. So I will save it for what it was designed for.
I have delegated it to my EDC cause I know when clean I can get 3 off without jam , but as for a range pistol, its just a waste of ammo as I have stated.

 

[PastorB]

After another month at range, I officially give up on this little pistol. Anything beyond 20 ft is a waste of caps, balls, and powder. it will never be an accurate shooter at any distance,.
Cant get thru a full cycle (5 shots) without some version of cap jam. Tried Rem #10, #11, RWS1075, doesnt matter although the Rem #10 seems to work best. 10 grains T7 3F.
This pistol was never meant to have any distance accuracy. it was meant to inform a card cheat on other side of table that you had enough of his guff. So I will save it for what it was designed for.
I have delegated it to my EDC cause I know when clean I can get 3 off without jam , but as for a range pistol, its just a waste of ammo as I have stated.

I fixed my cap jams in the Uberti 1849 by using a mainspring from a Pietta 1851 Navy. Had to do a little fitting, but now cap jams are rare. My little gun was always accurate, and now it is actually a fun gun without a cap jam every shot, which is what happened with the Uberti factory mainspring, no matter what I tried. I can get 18 grains (volume) of 777, or any other powder in, and still load a round ball. Even with that load, cap jams are infrequent since my mainspring replacement. I usually just shoot 12-14 grains however.

 

[Dickydalton]

I have one 1849 and it'll stay stock. For shooting I have 6 other Pocket Colts and 45D did a job on this 2nd Gen Pocket Navy. Super light cocking and trigger pull is perfect. Never jams a cap and stays clean. Mike doesn't like working on the little guns but he does great when he does.