Uberti 1851 Colt is now 100%

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Jac Spring

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Some of you may recall my posts on the trouble that I was having with ignition with my Uberti 1851. Well, as detailed, I strengthened the main spring after deburring the innerds. I also replaced the nipples with Thunder Mountain's #10.

I was able to take it out and shoot it yesterday at 25 yards. It now functions 100% with #10 CCI caps. It currently shoots about 8-10" high at 25 yards but I'm going to deepen the rear notch a bit to bring that down some.

Here's a pic of the pistol loaded and ready to test and one down range.

HPIM0964.JPG

HPIM0965.JPG


I didn't get a pic of the target as I was about to pass out from the heat and the other shooters were involved in a little match, so I just left.

My primary goal was to test it's function though and its clear that everything is now working properly. The trigger is excellent and it holds on target well.
 
Excellent. Glad you got it worked out.

I'm in the midst of buying spare parts and converting/upgrading parts on my bp revolvers. The nipples have been the hardest to get done. First of all, length matters and none (like in zero) of the retailers provides any length information - you're supposed to decipher their "most Italian revolvers" code. And then apparently Treso's nipple machining equipment broke down and the supply dried up - one supplier completely and utterly ignored my order for six weeks without any explanation whatsoever. And I've still found no source at all for one of my guns.

Sorry - apologies for the rant. It's just been a very frustrating experience. I'm pleased to hear someone was successful; maybe I'll get there someday.

Is Thunder Mountain perhaps Thunder Ridge? If so, what part number did you order? If not, would you please provide contact info for them?

Thanks, and again, well done.
 
Dang, lesdexia strikes again! Yes, Thunder Ridge. They are stainless steel and a bit longer than the ones that came on the pistol.
[url] http://www.thunder-ridge-muzzleloading.com/parts_nipples.htm[/url]

They have a chart to guide your ordering - a very good chart.
 
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I was afraid of that - Thunder Ridge is the outfit that I had so much trouble with. Oh, well. Everyone has a bad 6 weeks once in a while.

I am familiar with their products (they eventually sent half of the order) and their chart. The chart has a couple of errors in it (for example, it says their part 5011L fits ALL Uberti revolvers. Well, it doesn't - the 5011L is a 12x28 thread, my Uberti 2nd Dragoon takes a 1/4x28 thread; the two are not interchangeable.)and says nothing about length, but it's about the best around even at that.

Once I solve the mystery of the threads on my Uberti 1862 Pocket Police - the thread measures 0.200" major diameter with 28 tpi, too small for 12x28 and there is no M5x0.9mm standard thread - I'll publish the results of my survey. It will include length information.
 
Mykeal: The Dixie catalog says the Uberti Walker and Dragoons use a 6mm X .9 nipple (which makes sense to me. Why would a foreign company use a (to them) ******* thread like a #1/4-28?)
A male 6mm thread would have a major diameter of .2362-.2300 while a male 1/4-28 has a major diameter of .2490-.2420. Quite a bit of difference. Are you sure your gun uses a 1/4-28?

The Dixie catalog goes on to say that the Uberti 1862 Police uses a 5.5mm-.9 nipple.
That nipple is also used in the Uberti 1851 and 1861 Navy, the 1860 Army, the 1849 Pocket, Baby Dragoon and .36, .44 Remington.
The Dixie part number is NP2040.

A 5.5mm male thread should be .2165 maximum in diameter. Assuming the metric tolerances are similar to the UN tolerances, the minimum diameter for a 5.5mm male thread would be .2100.
This by the way is almost exactly the same as a #12-28 thread. At least, the tolerances overlap for both the diameter and the pitch (28 TPI vs 28.222 TPI).

If the nipples in your 1862 measure .200, IMO either your measuring device is out of adjustment or the nipples have a lot of wear on them.

Hope this helps out. :)
zonie :)

I guess I should add that if someone owns a used gun, there's no telling what the original owner used as a nipple and many of these threads are close enough that incorrect nipples could have been forced into the gun sometime in its past.
I guess that's why its a good idea to measure the existing nipples and hope they are still the same as the originals.
 
Zonie - thanks for the reply. I appreciate your taking the time to help. This nipple thing has begun to take on the appearance of an obsession with me.

The Dixie catalog says the Uberti Walker and Dragoons use a 6mm X .9 nipple...Are you sure your gun uses a 1/4-28?

Yes, absolutely certain. I have two Dragoons, one is a Uberti 2nd Model with a date code of 1981 and the other a Colt Signature 3rd Model of unknown age. Both take a nipple with 1/4x28 threads; one is 0.610" long and the other is 0.633" long. Measured with calibrated dial calipers, two different hole gauges and thread gauges. No question in my mind about the result. And both accept a Treso 11-50-01 (which is 1/4x28x0.635) replacement with no difficulty.

I checked the Dixie online catalog and it shows two Dragoon/Walker nipples, p/n's NP0305 and NP1320; the NP1320 is spec'd as 0.245x28, certainly closer to 1/4x28 than M6x0.9mm. I can't find where they call out a M6x0.9mm nipple for the Dragoon.

My thread standards don't show an M6x0.9mm thread in either ISO Coarse or ISO Fine. And I can't find an M6x0.9mm nipple in Thunder Ridge's chart, so I'm a little confused by that spec.

The Dixie catalog goes on to say that the Uberti 1862 Police uses a 5.5mm-.9 nipple...The Dixie part number is NP2040.

Yep. Agree with that. But again, my specs don't show an M5.5x0.9mm thread, nor does the Thunder Ridge chart list such a nipple.

A 5.5mm male thread should be .2165 maximum in diameter. Assuming the metric tolerances are similar to the UN tolerances, the minimum diameter for a 5.5mm male thread would be .2100.
This by the way is almost exactly the same as a #12-28 thread. At least, the tolerances overlap for both the diameter and the pitch (28 TPI vs 28.222 TPI).

Agree with that also. Doing the arithmetic, the M5.5x0.9mm thread is virtually identical with 12x28, so I presume that's what Dixie's NP2050 really is. And there are plenty of those in Thunder Ridge's chart, and that's what they specify for the Ubertis as well. So all that makes sense.

That nipple is also used in the Uberti 1851 and 1861 Navy, the 1860 Army, the 1849 Pocket, Baby Dragoon and .36, .44 Remington.

Yes, again. The 12x28/M5.5x0.9mm nipple fits just fine in my other Ubertis, as both Dixie, Thunder Ridge (and others) claim.

If the nipples in your 1862 measure .200, IMO either your measuring device is out of adjustment or the nipples have a lot of wear on them.

I wish it were that simple. The gun is brand new, unfired, with a date code of 1997. I'm sure that this is the first time the nipples have ever been out of the cylinder. My tools are calibrated (by me, so they could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure they're ok) and they correctly measure the threads on nipples from all my other guns and brand name ones I've purchased from Track of the Wolf, Thunder Ridge and Jedediah Starr.

Not only do the nipples (all 5) I've removed from the cylinder measure 0.200x28, but the holes (all 5) in the cylinder measure undersize as well. And I've tried to insert several different nipples that measure 12x28 into the holes with no success - they are simply larger in diameter and will not start, with or without using a wrench. I tried nipples from other Ubertis, Treso's that I've bought from Track of the Wolf and Jedediah Starr and some of Thunder Ridge's house brand. Nothing will fit. Very frustrating.

I'm about to run a 12x28 tap down the cylinder holes and just make them the "right" size. I hate to do that to a cherry gun, but if I ever need to replace these nipples I guess the gun won't be so pristine any more so it won't matter as much.

I'm beginning to question my sanity here. It's not that I need to replace the nipples in this gun (as I said, it's brand new unfired), it's that I can't replace them. And the measurement of 0.200 is just bizzare - that doesn't fit anyone's spec anywhere.

Oh, well, everyone needs a hobby.

Thanks, again, for the response. I'll let you know if I ever solve this.
 
I was having the same trouble with my 51. Bought a new hammer spring from dixie gun works and now it fires every time. I am shootimg CCI # 11 caps.
Old Charlie
 
For what it's worth, my Machinery's Handbook shows a Lowenherz Thread that is a 5.5mm X 0.9.
It uses a 53 degree 8 minute thread form rather than the 60 degrees which is standard for most other threads.

Maybe the Italians found some German taps and dies and didn't know what to do with them so they started using that size for their nipples??
zonie :)
 
Well, guess their chart isn't that good after all. And it did take them a while to fill my order, but it came along.
 
Zonie said:
For what it's worth, my Machinery's Handbook shows a Lowenherz Thread that is a 5.5mm X 0.9.
It uses a 53 degree 8 minute thread form rather than the 60 degrees which is standard for most other threads.

Maybe the Italians found some German taps and dies and didn't know what to do with them so they started using that size for their nipples??
zonie :)

I'd be happy if they did - then I could use the 12x28 nipples I bought. I need a M5x0.9mm; now that's going to be hard to find!
 
O.S.O.K. said:
Well, guess their chart isn't that good after all. And it did take them a while to fill my order, but it came along.

The chart's ok - it's the best we got. It's just not perfect. Kind of like us - damn good until we screw up.

And I only have 2 Dragoons, so maybe there are some out there with 12x28 nipples. Stranger things have happened. Like 0.200x28 nipples in at least one (and so far only one) Uberti 1862 Colt Pocket Police.
 
For these types of pistols, are they on the same level as a normal centerfire pistol or do they count as black powder? I am a bit new to the older pistols o_O
 
Silver.FoX: I'm not sure exactly what your question is about being on the "same level as normal centerfire pistols vs black powder" but I think the answer is all of the pistols mentioned in this post are Black Powder Cap and Ball revolvers.
They do not use modern metallic cartridges although the nipples which the percussion caps are placed on are located roughly in the center of the chambers.

These revolvers are copies of guns which were made between 1847 and 1875 primarily by Colt and Remington. They were used extensively during the Civil War although many were used well into the cartridge era thru the 1880s.

zonie :)
 
Cap and Ball revolvers do not require an FFL - and uless you live someplace like New Jersey which treats them like modern revolvers, you can have them shipped to your door.
 
O.S.O.K. said:
Cap and Ball revolvers do not require an FFL - and uless you live someplace like New Jersey which treats them like modern revolvers, you can have them shipped to your door.

Yes, absolutely correct, and to put a fine point on it:

The feds (BATFE) consider antiques and replicas of antiques (guns that do not use modern cartridges) as not being under the GCA. They can thus be shipped and sold without the use of a Federal Firearms License holder. Many, in fact most, states follow that same guideline. I am aware of 6 states: Hawaii, Illinois, Maryland, Michigan, New Jersey and New York, that impose additional restrictions; there may well be others.

Bottom line: you not only must be aware of the federal laws but the state laws as well, and as the old saying goes: your mileage may vary.
 
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