Uberti 1851 Navy won't bust caps!

[Jac Spring]

The 1851 .36 Navy Uberti that I just purchased is having issues... It won't ignite the caps on the first strike - does on the second strike though.

I inspected it closely and found two things - well actually 3 - 1) it didn't look like the hammer was coming down completely on the nipples, 2) the hammer seemed to hang up on a little on the down swing and 3) the hammer spring is rather light in comparisson to my other revolvers...

I addressed number one by releaving the inside of the hammer a bit with my trusty dremel and it now comes down completely onto the nipple. I addressed number two by disassembling and deburring everything. It now operates very smoothly. Number three I think is the culprit - I tried to strengthen it by bending it out some but that doesn't seem to have done the trick.

I thought about the nipples themselves too, but I don't see how that would be the problem.

And I tried two different sizes and batches of caps that work 100% in all of my other revolvers.

So - what do you guys think? mec? mykeal?

Should I order a new hammer spring?

Oh, and I really like everything else about this revolver - it's fit and finish are great, it shoots to point of aim (just a tad high) and the key fits perfectly. The trigger is great too. It also seems to shoot accurately - but the percussion cap situation makes testing a bit frustrating.

If all eslse fails, I can take it back to the shop that I bought it from - they have a full time gunsmith that knows cap and balls...

 

[jeepwj992002]

I think I would try a different spring. If that don't work at least you will have a spare.

 

[ol vern]

It sounds to me like the caps arn't seated all the down on the nipples.

first hit drives the cap down,second hit fires it.

I would try a diferent size cap or take a file turn and the nipples down a little.

 

[Jac Spring]

No, that's not it - I tried number 11's and 10's and was careful to seat them properly. The first strike makes an "impression" - but doesn't ignite.

The same caps perform 100% with other revolvers - otherwise I'd suspect them.

Thanks for the thought though :hatsoff:

I just ordered a $3 mainspring from Dixie - and a new holster while I was there

The more I think about it, the more it seems that the hammer is striking too lightly.

 

[jeepwj992002]

Dixie is a dangerous place to shop! I hope that solves yer problem.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Dixie is a dangerous place to shop!

No kidding! I usually leave my wallet in the car when I get over there. Sometimes (SOMETIMES) I can talk myself out of doing something expensive!! :winking:

 

[piteruu]

First try to increase tension of hammer spring. Put a wedge of hard wood between hammer spring and triggerguard.

 

[Leatherbark]

When a cap and ball is tuned just right,it will bust the cap without hitting too hard on the nipple. See what part of the hammer is being stopped by the frame just a hair before it hits the nipple. See if you can hog out some of the inner curve of the hammer to make it go a little farther forward to really hit the cap a little more.......................Bob

 

[mec]

cci caps frequently will not go off with lightly sprung hammers. I've corrected that problem with my revolver by dowell seating the caps with a lot of pressure. there is the potential for setting off the chamber and sending a ball down the side of the frame= an event that shouldn't cause any difficulty as long as the gun is pointed downrange.

 

[mykeal]

You've done the things I would have suggested first - stoning, polishing, etc. to get the action smooth is often necessary on a brand new Colt repro, even from Uberti. And you have pretty much eliminated the caps themselves - they are rarely the cause of a first strike failure, and if they work on other guns, well, they work.

At this point it's either the nipples or the hammer.

mec's suggestion about dowel seating is a good one. Every time I've had problems with caps not igniting on the first strike it's been because the cap was not well seated on the nipple. Try seating them with a dowel - if that solves the first strike problem then we need to change the nipples. They are not to spec. And yes, a whole set may be bad - they are made in batches.

A light striking force is a little less likely because the caps fire on subsequent strikes - the hammer force is not likely changing between the first and second strikes. However, a stronger mainspring might "solve" a cap seating problem so that the first strike is sufficient. Maybe. Adding a wedge (per piteruu) is a quick way to test that.

Leatherbark's idea of interference with the hammer fall would seem to have been covered by your Dremel cleanup, but it wouldn't hurt to pay very close attention to that last few degrees of arc. Is the hammer really doing it's job at the very end? Again, however, that wouldn't change necessarily between the first (failed) strike and subsequent successful ones, so it's unlikely the cause. Still worth some more close inspection, though.

Finally, alignment of the hammer face and the nipple. I have heard of (but not personally seen) at least two cases of the hammer face striking the cap/nipple at an angle. That is, the hammer face itself was misaligned with the nipple so that it struck at the edge. In one case this was apparently due to a bit of casting flash on the hammer face; in the other incident it was claimed the hammer was bent! In both cases the problem was allegedly solved buy changing to a new hammer. I suppose you could check this with some white inletting paste on the hammer face, then letting the hammer down slowly and seeing where the paste is transferred to the nipple face.

That's about it. Good luck.

 

[Jac Spring]

Thanks everyone.

The hammer seems to be operating freely all the way down to the nipple. The problem ocurres with #10's (which do seat hard) and #11's which can come off during fire as they are loose. I finger seat the caps and then use the hammer to fully seat them - figure this way the ball would go down the barrel as designed (downrange of course) - so I'm pretty confident that they are seated fully - but if the nipples are out of whack, then maybe not - that's what you're telling me. I'll chuck them into my drill press and sand them down a little towards the base of the nipple head to see if that lets the caps go down a bit more... I'll also try putting a washer or somethng under the mainspring screw to see if that increases the tension.

This is the first cap and ball that's given me trouble like this.

 

[Bob Riegl]

:hmm: #1 I do not recommend seating the nipples with a dowel---that's a method that WILL cause you some grief in the foreseeable future. If the #10's do not seat easily then you will have to remove those nipples---chuck them into a variable speed drill and carefully file down that nipple (use a needle file) until the cap seats fully on the nipple without any force or the use of a tool- :youcrazy: . When the #10's fit the nipples easily they also can be removed without tools (careful). Put them back on the gun and enjoy shooting that Uberti---after all it's a Uberti not a Pietta. I have done this procedure with every BP revolver I own (22) and they are all successful shooters. The description of your problem is what triggers my response---does not fire on the first snap---but the second---the first one seats the nipple and the second fires it. Try this approach before you go doing anything else such as spring replacement. :hatsoff:

 

[mykeal]

I didn't suggest turning down the nipples because every time I fire up some power tool I end up destroying what I intended to fix...and filing them down by hand has too many reasons to not do it.

Yes, problems with seating the caps is the most likely cause, and machining the nipples may be the solution. Seating the caps with a dowel was suggested as a one time thing to test the question of whether caps not seating properly was the problem; I don't see it as a long term solution. My idea was that, if after seating the caps with a dowel, the caps fired on the first hammer strike then we can reasonably conclude that seating the caps is the proximate cause. The corrective action is either new nipples or machining the old ones.

Something to look for when you have the nipples chucked up: if the top (face) of the nipples are not orthogonal with the vertical axis (that is, squared up across the top), the top face might appear to "wobble" when the drill is turned. If that face is not truely orthogonal (within some reasonable amount) then the percussive material in the cap may not be in contact with the nipple (except over a very small area) even if the cap is fully and properly seated with respect to the sides of the nipple. This is another manifestation of the alignment issue I mentioned above. The fix is either new nipples (no, I'm not a nipple salesman, although there are some very bad jokes that occur here...) or just filing them down a little (even more bad jokes).

At this point: :surrender:

 

[crockett]

Get yourself a set of quality after market nipples for the revolver. Problemn ought to be solved. For a few bucks another main spring may help.

 

[Jac Spring]

Well, I've ordered some new nips from Thunder Ridge - thanks mykeal - saw that in your post on another board.

I also decided to try something - this:

Its a 10-32 screw to increase tension on the mainspring - works but it's limited as the spring is only so long and will slip out from under the hammer roller if you go too far. It does increase the tension some.

I also tried turning the niples down a little with a mill file - didn't seem to do much though. I was a little surprised at how rough they are - not really plumb in circumfrence. I may try turning them some more to see what happens - I do have the replacements coming and these are really unsatisfactory as is, so nothing to lose!

I did get 100% ignition with #10 caps - but I really had to push hard on the hammer to seat them. I am sure the niples are the culprit here.

Here's a pic of the full assembled critter at the range.

 

[Bob Riegl]

:bow: Chuck the nipples on the threads easily and work from there---only filing the round part of the nipples--- :thumbsup:

 

[arquebus]

I know this isn't the problem you are having, but I recently replaced the nipples on my original Adams-patent revolver with some after market ones. Once they were in place I discovered that the nipple cone was shorter than on the originals & the hammer was falling short of the caps. I remedied the situation by placing a small washer between the nipple & the cylinder, it now works 100% & I still have good thread engagement. Just a thought in case anyone else is having similar problems.

 

[Christiaan]

Just for interest sake. We had a batch of Uberti's in Africa that had the problem. I contacted Suzanne at Uberti and she said they know about the problem on a certain batch and send us slightly longer nipples. We replaced nipples and it seemed to work. I hope the new nipples will work for you.

 

[Jac Spring]

Thanks - yeah, that was at least part of the problem - I fixed that. I turned the nipples again today to reduce them a little more - haven't tested them yet but did get the new mainspring and put that it - gives a little more tension.

We'll see how it goes - I did get 100% ignition after really bearing down on seating the #10's so I think its down to the nipples now.

 

[Rebel]

Put a thin shim under them and try them. Maybe just the thickness of an aluminum pop can.