Uberti Walker, Diameter & load?

[mukluk]

Do I just seat the ball on top of powder or should I use a small card/wad?

I use Bees Wax will this be OK?

An overpowder card or wad isn't really necessary... with a caveat: Revolvers tend to give their best accuracy when the ball is seated at or close to the end of the chamber. What you don't want is for there to be any air space between the powder charge and the ball... you need to either firmly seat the ball down on the powder or use a filler of some sort (wad, cream of wheat, cornmeal, grease cookie, etc) with the ball firmly seated on the filler.

You'll need to experiment with your particular pistol when you get it to see what it shoots best regarding ball size, powder type&charge weight, ball seating depth, filler or no filler, type&quantity of lube, type of percussion cap, etc.

As for the Bees Wax, it tends to be a bit too stiff by itself for a lube... it's usually recommended to mix it with some other type of natural lube to soften it up (olive oil is commonly used).

 

[nkbj]

"Because the ball/bullet is sheared to size by the chamber mouth, long bullets are very difficult to load. A roundball on the other hand will have very little material removed in the loading process so it is much easier to do with much less wear and tear on the loading lever."

A properly sized bullet has a base diameter that slips into the chamber (think maxiball). The forward contact area shears on the chamber mouth the same as with a round ball. Apologies if that was not adequately explained in my previous post.
An incorrect bullet will be far worse than an incorrect ball. A bullet not matched to the revolver will be misaligned and deformed at loading.
Properly fashioned a bullet matches the chamber that receives it, naturally receives alignment from the chamber, does not require excessive pressure to be seated in the chamber and thus will provide uniformity from shot to shot.
As previously mentioned, round ball is self aligning. Good results are unlikely if bullets are used that are not self aligning. The back end of the ball is spherical. The bottom of the bullet is flat. If the bullet is misaligned the flat back end becomes a cocked tiller and the boat turns. If all is done properly then accuracy is the result.

 

[Zonie]

I totally agree that a misaligned bullet presents another problem that makes matters worse.

The increased pressure required for loading a bullet comes not just from the possible misalignment.

A .454 diameter roundball when loaded into a .449 diameter chamber (Uberti 1860 Colt ref.) has a length of shear (the length of the material that will be sheared off) of .067, so, it isn't unrealistic to say the chamber mouth will have to shear thru a .067 thick lead plate. (Yes, I realize that this shearing requires less force than actually piercing thru a plate, but the same rules apply).

A cylindrical bullet on the other hand has a length of shear many times that thickness consequently the "thickness" of the material that needs to be sheared thru is greater than that of the typical lead ball.

As a piercing die designer will tell us, this increase in thickness or length of cut results in higher forces proportional to the thickness of the material being removed.

The net result is a bullet requires more force to load than a roundball.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

I'll just add my :2 and say that any bullet (especially a slightly mis-aligned one) that grabs the chamber at or near the chamber mouth ONLY and not further down runs the chance of entering the forcing cone at an angle that will result in inferior accuracy, OR, could possibly, under the right circumstances (such as the recoil of a 50-60 grain rifle charge) become partially dislodged and make the revolver inoperable or unsafe.

This is why I recommend to only use round balls on this Forum--because you never know who you're really dealing with or how much actual experience they have.

That all being said, if you're trained in-person by someone who's an expert with conicals in revolvers, then by all means have fun with them.

Dave

 

[nkbj]

LOL...I have been trained by 35 years of making bullets for revolvers. When I was young making our own was how we managed to afford to go shooting.

I'm gonna try to paint that word picture one more time.
For the sake of discussion I just miked the front band on my Walker bullet. The band is 0.081" thick. That sets down on top of the chamber mouth when the rest of the bullet has been slipped into the chamber. Because the diameter of the front band is closely fitted to the dimensions of the chambers it swedges into the chamber mouth just barely shaving any lead. The bullet below the leading band is just less than the chamber diameter. Alignment is total. The ogive matches the ram to avoid distortion. This is a matter of the projectile being fashioned for accuracy just as you would do for any revolver. The load will not shift with recoil. Nor will it become misaligned. On the contrary, the front of the bullet will be engaging the rifling as the obdurated base leaves the chamber.
Revolvers is revolvers. Some just don't need brass. The Walker was intentionally designed to take advantage of conicals as the service load. And like any revolver for best results you have to use a projectile correctly fashioned for that piece.
I bother to make the Walker bullets because I also enjoy that aspect of the hobby. If you don't like doing things like that, best you use round ball.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

You Sir, are the exception to the rule! You obviously know what you're doing with conicals in a revolver. As I said before, one can not assume that everyone here has the same qualifications. May I respectfully request that you update your Bio so that when someone takes a "look" at your profile to glean any info with regards to your background (such as how long you've been making bullets and reloading, for example) they come away with a more thorough understanding of your experience with firearms.

Some folks here are collectors and haven't even shot a gun yet. Others are like me, skilled in a bunch of diverse firearms disciplines: Black powder rifles, revolvers, shotgun; I.D.P.A., U.S.P.S.A., bird hunting, sporting clays, high power, PPC, etc. Still others are complete Newbies who need to be told how much powder to use as well as taught safe gun handling technique because this firearm is their first ownership experience.

Now with that all that said and done, I'd like to see a photo of these bullets that you make and see some results such as chrono test results and perhaps some testing on phone books, ballistic gelatin or something else that would show how the bullets work. And thanks in advance for your time and talents.

Dave

 

[OLDPUPPYMAX]

Actually the point of the lubed wad is to help prevent chain firing. Also it can move the ball closer to the barrel, but that's about it. I've not had anyone tell me that it improves accuracy.

 

[Rebel]

I beg to differ. If you have a good tight ball to chamber fit,( ie you shave a ring of lead off the ball) there is no way a flame is going to get past it to the powder. The chainfires come from a cap falling off un-noticed and flame getting in through the nipple hole.

 

[mykeal]

And what if you DON'T have a good ball to chamber fit, and the caps stay on? Is it then possible for a chain fire to be initiated from the front of the cylinder?

The lubed wad does HELP prevent chain fires in that it's insurance against the occasion when the ball to chamber fit is not as good as expected, like when a void or discontinuity on the surface of the ball is uncovered by the swaging during loading.

 

[Rebel]

Yes, the wad is insurance, and they do seem to help keep the bore clean, and If you don't have a good seal from a well fitting ball you Might get a chainfire from the front, (ie an ASM revolver with oblong cylinders). But i still say 99% of chainfires are probably from the rear and a missing cap on a charged chamber. Ohh, and i do use either wads or cornmeal as a filler most of the time any more. But not because i want to prevent chainfires.