Uh, oh, a newbie with a Whitworth!

[Marine Sniper]

Finally got my Pedersoli Whitworth ready to go shoot. I am pretty new to the black powder game- have shot pistols (you can see an original new model behind the Whitworth) but never a rifle.

I am ready to go to the range but just want to make sure of a few things. I have 580 gr. hexagonal bullets, primers and 3F powder. I have a ramrod.

The first few trips to the range I just want the rifle to safely go boom; looking for a little help on load data- where to start? Is 3F a good choice in powders for this rifle? If so- how much? What velocity should I expect? Do I have to use a patch or some buffer between the powder and bullet? Do I need a drop tube, or can I just pour the powder down the barrel? How much do I tamp down the bullet on top of the powder?

Like I said; just looking for the rifle to go boom safely.

Thanks,
John

 

[deermanok]

Although I don't know much about your rifle, I think 3f powder should be good. Maybe start with about 70 grains and increase the amount about 10 grains until you find the most accurate load. A cushion wad can't hurt.

 

[Rudyard]

The useual is a card wad then a lubricated felt wad I beleive the original load was to duplicate the service Enfield 2&1/2 drams & 530 Grain bullet he was comissioned to improuve the rifle but to stay with the then 1853 Enfield service load thinking more of the soldiers weight than any other ideal .3ff ide say was too fine I do'nt think but others will know if it was courser . hope that helps .like any rifle they can foul so ensure the bullet reaches it same place as when clean .
Rudyard

 

[Beekeeper]

Here's my loading procedure. What works for me may not necessarily work for you. Clean the bore out to remove any oil residue really well, and then make sure it is dry. Next, I fire a couple caps to ensure the firing channel is clear. I use a drop tube to pour my charge of 1.5Fg or 2Fg, which you can weigh or use a volumetric measure. If shooting longer ranges you'll probably want to weigh your charges. Next I push a 1/8 inch thick round card wad down until it reaches the powder charge. Then the projectile goes down until it reaches the card. After the first shot the loading procedure stays the same except after running the card wad down on the powder I run a damp patch down the bore followed by a dry one, and then load the projectile. I'll see if I can locate my velocity data for you in a little bit.

 

[Sun City]

That combo is gonna make you pull your hair out......if you have any!!

 

[LawrenceA]

What bullet are you using?
The hexagonal or the round?
check this out
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/whitworth-rifles-accuracy.51072/

 

[Whitworth]

I enjoy shooting mine just to make the funny shaped bullet holes. As to accuracy, my shooting results can't be used for evaluation. Unless I have crosshairs to aim with these days I don't do too well. I'm sure some real shooters will chime in. Facebook has a Whitworth shooters group with lots of info.

 

[Marine Sniper]

That combo is gonna make you pull your hair out......if you have any!!

Hair is all gone! I have heard the Whitworths can be frustrating.

 

[Marine Sniper]

What bullet are you using?
The hexagonal or the round?
check this out
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/whitworth-rifles-accuracy.51072/

Thanks for the link; I use the hex bullets.

 

[52Bore]

75gr Swiss will be around 1250fps.
If you have a flat base, use a wad- felt.
Just seat the bullet on the wad, no need to compress.
Good luck, have fun.

 

[TFoley]

All good replies thus far. Hopefully, Mr Minshall of the MLAGB will look in sometime. I have a Parker-Hale version, and shoot cylindrical bullets in mine, not having a source of the hex items any more.

I suggest that the OP watches capandball on Youtube as he shoots HIS Pedersoli Whitworth rifle - it really is worth watching how the Hungarian national champion does it.

 

[toot]

WOW!WOW!!.

 

[Kno-ie]

Pedersoli powder chart has a starting load of 50grs. with a max of 100grs. for the Whitworth with a hex bullet. They do not show a grain size.

I'm currently using 3f in mine. I don't worry about velocity until the gun tells me what it likes in accuracy and load combination. I use a poster card wad on the powder followed by a 50cal felt wad, then a flat base paper patch 540grn cylinder bullet all on top of 78grns measured of Swiss or 80grns of Old Ensford. I did start at 50grns and worked up until I found the load the gun liked

A drop tube is not needed. A gentle tap with the palm of your hand at base of the barrel will help settle the powder in the breech. No need to tamp the powder. A gentle seating of the wad combo then the bullet is all that's needed. Do make sure you have seated the wad and bullet on the powder charge, mark your rammer at the first loading. This will help to make sure the load is seat the same every time and no air gap is left between the charge and bullet.
Good luck, these Whitworths are a hoot to shoot.
Kno-ie

 

[rickpa]

While I have a Volunteer instead of a Whitworth I found that it shoots better with a pure lead bullet instead of an alloy mix. You might also want to get a platinum lined nipple because these rifles have a tendency to burn out the flash hole readily.

 

[Zonie]

I strongly suggest that 3Fg powder should never be used in a muzzleloader that is firing a heavy bullet. It can create very high chamber pressures.

As I just mentioned in another thread, in a .45 caliber muzzleloading rifle barrel a patched lead roundball over a 70 grain load of 2Fg powder had a breech pressure of 11,100 psi. The same powder load under a 325 grain bullet had a breech pressure of 19,100 psi under a 70 grain powder load of 2Fg powder.

The same barrel shooting the patched roundball under 70 grains of 3Fg powder had a breech pressure of 13,300 psi. Lyman did not test 3Fg powder under the elongated bullets. I'm sure the reason is the pressures could be dangerous.

Speaking of pressures, Lyman lists velocity and muzzle energy for a number of loads for a barrel with a .451 diameter bore and 1:20 twist. NONE of the loads for that barrel were fired using 3Fg powder. Also, even with 2Fg powder, no breech pressures are listed for any of the loads.
I'm sure the pressures were far greater than the pressures given for the 325 grain slug I mentioned before. The bullet used in the .451 caliber barrel weighed 475 grains.

I suggest that no one should shoot 3Fg powder in a rifle when it is shooting heavy bullets. There's nothing to gain and possibly a lot to lose.

 

[Bad Karma]

I strongly suggest that 3Fg powder should never be used in a muzzleloader that is firing a heavy bullet. It can create very high chamber pressures.

As I just mentioned in another thread, in a .45 caliber muzzleloading rifle barrel a patched lead roundball over a 70 grain load of 2Fg powder had a breech pressure of 11,100 psi. The same powder load under a 325 grain bullet had a breech pressure of 19,100 psi under a 70 grain powder load of 2Fg powder.

The same barrel shooting the patched roundball under 70 grains of 3Fg powder had a breech pressure of 13,300 psi. Lyman did not test 3Fg powder under the elongated bullets. I'm sure the reason is the pressures could be dangerous.

Speaking of pressures, Lyman lists velocity and muzzle energy for a number of loads for a barrel with a .451 diameter bore and 1:20 twist. NONE of the loads for that barrel were fired using 3Fg powder. Also, even with 2Fg powder, no breech pressures are listed for any of the loads.
I'm sure the pressures were far greater than the pressures given for the 325 grain slug I mentioned before. The bullet used in the .451 caliber barrel weighed 475 grains.

I suggest that no one should shoot 3Fg powder in a rifle when it is shooting heavy bullets. There's nothing to gain and possibly a lot to lose.

I’ve shot a little 3f under mid weight bullets, (340-400 grain) and the results wi 70 grain charges weren’t encouraging. I’m now using 2f Swiss and some guys using the heavy weight bullets are using 1-1/2F Swiss.

 

[dave61965]

When I had my Pedersoli Whitworth I came across this video, he mentions he’s shooting a 650ish grain bullet over 60 grains of Swiss 3f powder, he’s not shooting a hexagonal bullet and neither did I so take it for what it’s worth.

 

[TFoley]

That's a heck of a weight for any .451 bullet. This one, an early Polisar swaged flat-base - weighs 600gr. Snooting it prone with 90gr was a lot less fun than you might imagine..

The real thing weighed only 535gr or thereabouts.

Why schlep?

 

[dave61965]

That's a heck of a weight for any .451 bullet. This one, an early Polisar swaged flat-base - weighs 600gr. Snooting it prone with 90gr was a lot less fun than you might imagine..

The real thing weighed only 535gr or thereabouts.

Why schlep?

View attachment 74791

The 650 was definitely a typo, the bullet in question was 460ish grains, over 60 grains of Swiss 3f powder, I used the Lyman 457-121PH 475 grain mold, here’s the video I mentioned, not sure why the link didn’t show in my other post.

 

[Whitworth]

My Pedersoli drops hex bullets at around 560 in pure lead and around 480 in pure linotype.