un-breaching old barrels

[Tinker2]

I have a few old barrels that need to be un-breached to see if they are
useable. Flint and percussion, all old originals. Rifles, muskets, pistols
and shotguns. These are mostly just barrels only, no wood or parts.
Something I may build around if useable.

I don’t have a way to check the bore other then pull the plug. Right??

What kind of a setup do I need, how do I go about this? I am sure that
it is not going to be easy after 200+ years of rusting the breach plugs in place.

I am open to most any ideas.




Thanks, your ideas are always appreciated.

Tinker2

 

[StewartLeach]

My buddy who rebuilds beat to rust and splinters old guns says the most important thing is patience. Soak the the breech area in Kroil penetrating oil inside and out. Stand the breech end in a soup can of Kroil for a month or more. Occasionally give the breech area sharp raps on all sides with a heavy plastic headed hammer. Heat gently with propane torch and let cool several times. Soak some more, then secure in big vise, file fit breech plug wrench to that plug, and try to loosen. If it won't come, repeat above.

White Fox

 

[wulf]

Also be very careful with the vice as these
barrels are iron not steel and will dent very
easily...but I am sure you already know that...
haven seen so many with pipe wrench and waffle
marks tattooed on 'em...

 

[ohio ramrod]

Another vote for kroil and time. It took many years to rust in place don't try to remove the breech in a hurry. :hmm:

 

[necchi]

Make a tool,,

Get the idea? Real tight on the breech plug,,long for torque,,

And use a big solid padded vice for the barrel,
:wink:

 

[Walks with fire]

That should work quite well.

 

[Dave K]

Be really, really careful with double barrels. It is not real hard to twist the barrels in the ribs and then you have a REAL mess. As you know, not all that many double barrels have barrel flats to get a good grip on them to remove the breech. I may be braver or dumber than most, but I survey the gun real well without unbreaching. Let your conscious be your guide on this.

 

[Tinker2]

My buddy who rebuilds beat to rust and splinters old guns says the most important thing is patience. Soak the the breech area in Kroil penetrating oil inside and out.

Patience I have, I have had some of these barrels for years. :idunno:

Been soaking or giving a shot to the breeches of some of them in Kroil
or other penetrating oil for years.

I would be consider a pack rat by some.



Thanks
Tinker2

 

[Tinker2]

Necchi

:bow:
Good idea. Looks like a good way to make a barrel vice too.

I don’t like using a bench vice for holding barrels when trying to remove
breech plugs that been in place 100+ years.

I have had some move when just clamped in a big bench vice.


Thanks
Tinker2

 

[Tinker2]

Be really, really careful with double barrels. It is not real hard to twist the barrels in the ribs and then you have a REAL mess.

Oh yes. I have had four that had been in pieces when I got them.
Always more work then they were worth. You got to like that kind of work
or have some screws lose, maybe both.

“I survey the gun real well without unbreaching. Let your conscious be
your guide on this.”

I am pretty sure that most of them are shot as is, not useable as is.
Need to be re-bore, rifled, lined or the like to use. I don’t have a bore
scope. I don’t know any other way to tell. I have dropped a light down the
barrels and don’t think I would care to shoot them as is, but then they
are not terrible bad.




Thanks
Tinker2

 

[Bubba45]

I made a wrench like the one shown out of 1" square stock with 12" handle that I could wack with a lead hammer . The jaws have 1/8" brass soft soldered to them to keep from marring plug . I use brass or aluminum jaw pads in my vise to hold barrel and give the handle a solid wack with the lead hammer (5#)and usally its enough to jar the crust loose to let go of plug .You have to make sure things are squared up and tight before that first swing so it doesnt slip.If its still tight, more soaking in Kroil or a little heat to barrel and try again . On and on till it gives in . :grin:

 

[paulvallandigham]

YOu can avoid using the hammer on your handle, by using a pipe, slipped over the "handle" to extend the length, and give you more leverage on the "wrench". I have also lain on the floor holding a pipe wrench on the barrel Under the bench vise, for a friend who was trying to loosen the breechplug on an older barrel using a similar "wrench" to the one shown that he made. My pushing my pipe wrench against him took the Pressure off the jaws and threads of his bench vise, and was the deciding factor in getting the plug freed.

 

[Bubba45]

Paul, you are right , but a lot of times a bit of shock value will break the crust where a steady tension will not . I dont go at it as if splitting wood :haha: A good sharp rap most times does it .

 

[paulvallandigham]

BTDT, too. It works- sometimes. My father taught me to use a long pipe over the handle of my wrench to unscrew things like rusted breechplugs. I put it to use helping a friend who was a BP gunsmith, when he needed the extra hands, and leverage. He was also surprised that I knew something he didn't about how to get that rust to release. He had soaked the barrel in kerosene for a week before calling me over to help him. He was wacking the handle of his "wrench" with a mallet when I arrived. I let him hold the pipe as he put pressure on the handle, and it came out as if greased with butter.

 

[jerrywh]

For single barrels only---first you do everything stated above. then if it doesn't come out, heat the breach plug red hot with a torch after making sure the barrel isn't [LOADED].
Let it get completely cold and then soak in WD40 and screw it out. The plug will expand when it gets hot and compress. When it cools it will contract and be looser. The heat will also burn up the oxide or rust.
Bouble barrels are more complex. I can tell you how to do them if you need to know but it is a fairly long explanation.

 

[Tinker2]

"Double barrels are more complex. I can tell you how to do them if you need to know but it is a fairly long explanation".

I for one would like to know about un-breaching doubles.

Any and all information and help is most appreciated.


Thanks
Tinker2

 

[paulvallandigham]

Their are several products on the market that you can use to eat away the rust. Kroil, Break Free, and liquid Wrench are the old stand-bys. All are based on Kerosene, and have oxidizers in them to eat at the rust. A new product announced here a little while ago is " Evaporust". I have used Liquid Wrench, and have a friend who swore by Kroil, but I have not yet used the other two. I can't even find Evaporust sold locally.

Doubles are often difficult to work on because the makers often cut away the side of one plug, so they can fit the two barrels closer together. You have to remove the plugs in their proper order.

 

[jerrywh]

In the first place there are two type of barrels for us to be concerned about. English and American barrels had soft soldered ribs. French and Belgian barrels had brazed on rib. We are talking before 1910 era. What I do with the brazed on rib type is this. I make a split maple block with a oval cut out of them in the middle so that the split block will fit down over the breech of the doubles. Spray the breech of the barrels with WD40. Put enough plastic body filler or bondo in half of the block and press it down onto the top of the barrels about 1" from the breech. When it sets take it off and trim it flush on the bottom and sides. Then put it back on the barrels and do the same with the other half of the split block so that it form a perfect fit clamping block. you will have to put something in between the two blocks so that they will not bond together, Generally Vaseline works real well. But you can wax the first half with a couple of coats of Johnson’s past wax. When it sets , trim it up nice and neat. now you have a wooden clap that you can tighten as tight as you please and the barrels will not deform or twist.
Believe it or not the bondo will stand about 1500 degrees without burning up. The wood will not. With brazed ribs you can now heat the breech plugs the same as you would on the single barrel. Just the plugs not the barrels. You can get the barrels red hot but not over about 1350°
For the soft soldered type use the same type of block but don't heat them over about 500° then put them in the freezer. Do that intermittently several times if necessary. HOT -COLD- HOT COLD etc. Sometimes I soak them for a few minutes in phosphoric acid 10% but not over 30 minutes of it will begin to eat the barrels. Most all the rust dissolver has phosphoric acid in it.

 

[paulvallandigham]

That's a terrific Technique. And the Bondo also acts as a heat sink to keep the barrel( and ribs) cooler, as you heat the plugs.

Thanks. Some of these newer products surely do make that kind of work easier.

I stopped trying to do my own machine work more than 40 years ago, when I decided to be a lawyer. Since then, I have cultivated friends and clients who are skilled machinists. They are kind enough to let me step in and use their equipment from time to time, but mainly I rely on their expertise to handle the serious work. They get a kick out of having a lawyer who actually knows what the heck they do for a living! As new equipment has been developed, making a lot of boring work easier, its still the creative minds of the skilled machinist that makes custom work, and problem solving possible. Designing and making "Jigs", and tools to get a specific job done is what "makes" a great machinist.

 

[Tinker2]

Thanks for all the great help and ideas. You folks are great.


Tinker2