Unfamiliar Matchlock Style

[PhDBrewer]

All of this is very interesting. This matchbook is 150cm long and is considered a "wall" matchbook. Made in 1619. Based on the "pin" or "nipple" on the buttplate, I would assume under the arm.

Thanks for the great discussion.

William

 

[PhDBrewer]

This crossbow has a narrow "tail stock", thin and possibly to be grasped under the arm.

william

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Both good photos PH!
The musket is quite within the bounds of a normal musket to be fired from the shoulder. and is stocked to be fired in that manner.
I think what you are seeing, re the 'pin', is the other side of a leather strip that was once attached to the piece we can see. It is an unusual feature, but Might have been tacked on to prevent it slipping when stood or leaned up somewhere.

The crossbow tiller is also a very common type, too short for under the arm. it was held against the cheek so a proper sight could be taken.

Thank you for posting them both!

Best,
Rich.

 

[PhDBrewer]

Both good photos PH!
The musket is quite within the bounds of a normal musket to be fired from the shoulder. and is stocked to be fired in that manner.
I think what you are seeing, re the 'pin', is the other side of a leather strip that was once attached to the piece we can see. It is an unusual feature, but Might have been tacked on to prevent it slipping when stood or leaned up somewhere.

The crossbow tiller is also a very common type, too short for under the arm. it was held against the cheek so a proper sight could be taken.

Thank you for posting them both!

Best,
Rich.

Rich, thanks for the info. However, I am seeing these "pins" on many matchlocks & wheellocks and I think that they are possibly for a sling or strap.

your thoughts?
William

 

[TobJohn]

Rich, thanks for the info. However, I am seeing these "pins" on many matchlocks & wheellocks and I think that they are possibly for a sling or strap.
View attachment 206815View attachment 206817your thoughts?
William

I’m pretty sure those are to protect the butt when loading.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

I’m pretty sure those are to protect the butt when loading.

I agree, looking at the length of the pull, most of those look like “cheek stocked” arms to me.

 

[Canute Rex]

A friend of mine made a copy of a 1615 era french wheellock. It has a full length buttstock that curves down slightly and looks like a trumpet from the side, but the buttplate angle is about 45 degrees. It shoulders, but it sits up on the shoulder, and tends to kick up and back. It's like the cheek stock version of a shoulder stock. Transitional, perhaps?

 

[TobJohn]

A friend of mine made a copy of a 1615 era french wheellock. It has a full length buttstock that curves down slightly and looks like a trumpet from the side, but the buttplate angle is about 45 degrees. It shoulders, but it sits up on the shoulder, and tends to kick up and back. It's like the cheek stock version of a shoulder stock. Transitional, perhaps?

I think some of those Italian petronels are supposed to be like that. They look awkward, but can still be reasonably shouldered. In the Graz wheellock book, there are some guns that are an amalgamation of pistol and carbine that have grips that can work in a similar way.

 

[Pukka Bundook]

PhD,
The ball on the butt is to stand the arm on when loading as TobJohn says. They are a well known fitting on cheek -stocked arms.
Again, very good quality photos!

Best,
R.

 

[TobJohn]

Because this thread has already had questions about petronel style stock and is about italian matchlocks:

For the Italian petronels, does anyone know if they have metal buttplates?

I had thought not, but this Italian gun from the same time, though different stock shape, has a similar angle and a simple buttplate:

And I have seen replicas with them:

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

You’re killing me … as this one is GORGEOUS!

 

[TobJohn]

You’re killing me … as this one is GORGEOUS!

View attachment 208342

It’s sold for €4200 in 2013. Maybe it will go back on the market one day…

 

[TobJohn]

Because this thread has already had questions about petronel style stock and is about italian matchlocks:

For the Italian petronels, does anyone know if they have metal buttplates?

View attachment 208261
View attachment 208262
View attachment 208263
View attachment 208264
View attachment 208265

I had thought not, but this Italian gun from the same time, though different stock shape, has a similar angle and a simple buttplate:
View attachment 208266
View attachment 208267

And I have seen replicas with them:
View attachment 208268

except for the first image (google) and the last (a builders facebook page), all of these are from this thread: Matchlock Petronels, Germany, ca. 1550-1600 - Ethnographic Arms & Armour

 

[TobJohn]

except for the first image (google) and the last (a builders facebook page), all of these are from this thread: Matchlock Petronels, Germany, ca. 1550-1600 - Ethnographic Arms & Armour

Since I made this thread, some excellent photos of an Italian musket were posted on vikingsword, which I wanted to highlight:
Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - Matchlock Petronels, Germany, ca. 1550-1600

 

[Rudyard]

Though not quite related to the above brilliant photo's,I will add some decidedly' unfamiliar photos' of The Automatic matchlocks of Tippoo Sultan of Seringapatam Southern India c1799. He was just a bit' Doolally' with his passion for Tigers fancied him self the' Tiger of Mysore' .Well that sort of annoyance didn't win him any favors with The East India Company . And it didn't end well for Tippoo .But he did have imagination & a force of very skilled French Gun makers and some 7 or so of these locks where made perhaps more but survival rate was small ..Note the bolted lock safety's & the complex levers that actuated these locks .Note too the what wev'e perhaps wrongly called ' Omani barrels' .
Robert Wiggington called them' Indian reused barrels' .He made a study of all the surviving arms of Tippoo's ownership .now sold on & he himself is now dead .But his beautiful book is a gem.. The odd shapes he incorporated in the locks & mounts are reminisant of the' Bubris '/ The Tiger stripes he incorporated in most all his guns & the uniforms of his Sepoys. He was however wont to feed his Tigers on British Merchants & had automatons that gave the same impression .This being unacceptable . He had to go. Very much a cad but cant say he didn't have style and some very capable gun makers .Only the one with the top hatted figure being attacked .The rest as it seemed readily enough put to flint locks but no example is known as being converted if similar shaped flint locks are found . .As production runs go these would seem the only such locks ever made .But cant say its not A notable exception . Regards Rudyard