Using 3fg in the .62/20ga flintlock trade musket

[Rob Dorsey]

Since it's -4 here is sunny old Kentucky I'm suffering a bit of cabin psychosis so I reckoned I'd try to increase my knowledge on this little 20ga flint trade musket. I asked before about using Swiss 1.5fg and got some good answers, one a bit rude but he was probably an abused child, so I'm asking the same question again for using 3fg, any brand. I'm shooting 75gr of 1.5f so I'm guessing about 70gr for the 3f. Haven't shot this yet but that's where I'd start if left to my own devices.

The reason is ignition times on the 1.5 although it has not been bad but there are also a few no-fires. Using 4fin the pan.

Thanks,
Rob

PS: I'm quite experienced in black powder shooting but this is my first smooth bore.

 

[roundball]

As one reference for you, a general purpose shot load in my 38" Rice .62cal(20ga) barrel is 70grns Goex 3F and #5 or #6 chilled shot.

 

[flintlock75]

I use 3F in my Trade gun all the time as well as in my Bess, I also use it to prime the pan. I have never had any ignition problems. In the trade gun I shoot 70gr. 3F with a patched .600 ball. in my Bess I use 90gr of 3F and a patched .705 ball. You should have good results using 3F, I use Goex most of the time but have used KIK several times.

 

[BrownBear]

I don't shoot enough smoothbore roundball to speculate whether this is a pattern for other guns or a coincidence in my gun, but here goes:

I've found my own considerably more "forgiving" about patch/ball combos with 3f Goex than with 2f Goex. Using 2f things have to be really tight to get the best accuracy- so tight a short starter is mandatory. With 3f I can get away with combos loose enough to thumb start, and get no improvement in accuracy from the tighter combos.

Dunno enough to know if I'm stupid. But I'm not going to change a thing. Preference and convenience have me shooting a combo loose enough to thumb start, and therefore using 3f Goex as my charge.

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

Using 2f things have to be really tight to get the best accuracy- so tight a short starter is mandatory. With 3f I can get away with combos loose enough to thumb start, and get no improvement in accuracy from the tighter combos.

This is interesting information, I may have to look into this as I am using 2f with a very tight ball/patch combination in my trade gun.

 

[BrownBear]

Worth a shot, and I'll be interested to learn what you find. It caught my attention because I'm 99.99% field shooter and like to keep my kit simple and easy. If I was a match shooter, I'd put a whole lot more research into finding the perfect load for paper.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

As one reference for you, a general purpose shot load in my 38" Rice .62cal(20ga) barrel is 70grns Goex 3F and #5 or #6 chilled shot.

I use the same load in my Pedersoli flintlock "trade gun" in .62. It's equivalent to a 2½ dram load that you would find in an inexpensive "upland game" shotshell. Kills squirrels and rabbits well. I use the same load in my SxS caplock 20 gauge for quail, chukkar, and pheasant.

LD

 

[nwtradegun]

I have used 3f swiss or shutzen in all my smoothbore with rb and shot. also for priming. just lower charge by 15 per cent from 2f. I currently have a 72 cal trade musket.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Rob, I use 3f in my Peder' trade gun, and in the pan. The pan gets 4f now because I happened on a pound. :thumbsup:

B.

 

[TinStar]

I use 3F in my French trade gun. 60 gr. for shot and 80 for ball.

TinStar
Soli Deo Gloria!

 

[Wes/Tex]

I've always Goex 3F for all me shooting. My old 46" flinter liked 80 grains with a patched ball for deer and large varmints and 50-60 grains for rabbit/quail/doves and upped to 70 to 80 grains for turkey/duck/geese. My rule of thumb is at least 1/8 to 1/4 oz., by volume, more shot than powder. I adjusted my original loads after reading the excellent stories of our own Spence. His site is a true pleasure to read or re-read. I found we had come to almost identical conclusions for loads but a couple of his ideas benefited me for trying them.
http://www.home.insightbb.com/~bspen/

 

[Alden]

FFg

 

[TinStar]

Sorry. I meant to say 70 grains for shot, not 60.

TinStar
Soli Deo Gloria!

 

[Rifleman1776]

We have had threads very similar to this in the past. I haven't replied yet because the response I am going to give, for some strange reason :idunno: raises the ire of some here. Oh, well, here goes. When I got my 20 ga. fowler I tried using some Swiss 1 1/2Fg I had on the shelf just to use it up. Wouldn't ignite unless I poked a lot of 4 Fg. primer into the touch hole and used a heap more in the pan. Of course, lousy shooting. But, to me, the 1 1/2 Fg. proved useless. Switching to Schutezen 3 Fg. ignition is great. Go figger. I gave the 1 1/2 to a friend who loads for BPCR and it works fine there. Other than that, IMHO, it would make good garden fertilizer.

 

[bpd303]

You are right about 1.5 Swiss in a flintlock (slow ignition) however it works like a charm in my percussion fowling piece with ffffg Goex as a prime...

In my 65 caliber flintlock smoothbore, I use ffg Goex and ffffg as a prime.

 

[Billnpatti]

Used carefully, it will work fine in most fowlers. You just have to reduce your charge a bit to account for the faster burning 3f. However, some of the contributors, such as Cynthialee, have reported getting a better pattern using 2f. I, too, found that my fowler geve me a better pattern with 2f than it did with 3f. That is not to say that everyone will have the same experience but it seems to make sense to me. The 2f is slower burning and won't blow your pattern like the faster burning 3f will

 

[tenngun]

I have 2 and 3 f and use them in all my guns. In my .50 I shoot 70 grains 3,80 2,in my 62s do the same. Shot I go with the more shot less powder, shooting 70,2f with shot and 60 with 3f with shot.

 

[roundball]

Interesting differences being reported...and it has to be remembered that just the powder granulation alone does not in and of itself make the best patterns...as we know, many elements involved such as the size of the powder charge, the type & amount of OP wads, the lube type & amount, the size / type of shot pellets & size of shot charge, etc, have an effect on the pattern.

For my particular shot load habits which have been common across 32" GM .54/.62cal barrels, a 42" Rice .54cal barrel, and a 38" Rice .62cal barrel, Goex 3F has consistently given me better patterns than Goex 2F.
If I changed any one of the related components / approaches I use, that could very well flip to 2F...but as has been written by notable oldtimers, juggle whatever is necessary to use 3F in order to get the shot charge out of the barrel just a little bit sooner...so, on that advice, I've always worked a load to use 3F unless it literally just can't produce the best patterns, and so far I've never found that to be the case for me.

Others mileage may vary...

 

[hanshi]

I use 3F for everything up to and including my .62 smoothbore. I've experimented with 2F in some loads but so far without any improvement.

 

[roundball]

Forgot to include an additional consideration:
If someone gets a certain pattern with a 3F load, then simply tries an identical 2F powder charge with everything else the same and gets a pattern improvement...the main thing that's changed is reduced pressure / velocity from the 2F powder...which could be accomplished just by using slightly less 3F.