Using Black Powder

[Woodchuck Chuck]

When I first got started I didn't know any other muzzle loader shooters and the guy in the shop sold me on Pyrodex for my new ROA (probably didn't carry BP). Later I got a CVA Hawken in .50 cal, so I got Pyrodex for that too. After not using either one for a long time I'm ready to start up again and feel like I ought to try the real thing but I have questions. I needed to use different powders for my pistol and rifle with Pyrodex. Is it the same with BP or can I use FFFg for both? This is for targets only - I don't hunt anymore. I've heard that real BP is a lot harder to clean up after - is it? Is there something additional you need to do to clean it besides soap & water? And finally, I haven't checked my local shops yet, but assuming I find a variety to choose from is there a preferred brand? I see a lot of posts talking about Goex - is that accepted as the best in popular use? Many thanks!

 

[prowler]

Welcome to the world of real BP. I use nothing but Goex FFFg in my rifles and pistols. Cleanup is a breeze with soap and water, although I normally use a homemade mixure. My .50 Hawken likes about 70 grains with PRB for hunting, and 55 grains for just messing around. I also use a felt wad lubed with 50/50 beewax and EVOO over the powder. Enjoy the dark side.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Get a hold of some Butch's Black Powder Bore Shine and your grumbling over the clean-up of 3Fg Goex will be over my friend! It's distributed by Lyman, the same company that makes the Lyman rifles & pistols. It emulsifies BP on contact and cleans with a foaming action when you pump this majic sauce through the barrel at the range.

Other friends on this Forum can/will tell you how they make their own home-made formulas that also work GREAT!

Have fun and make smoke!

Dave

 

[MSW]

ayup, what Prowler said... go with the real stuff. it's not that much differnt to clean than anything else... i've used soap and water for years- clean up is the same as for the fake propellant. i've found plain old FFF easier to measure, easier to ignite, and just as easy to clean as pyrodex, so why pay the extra money.

return to the dark side, my smoke making brethren!

 

[Rebel]

So, how much wood coulda? Sorry, couldn't resist. Welcome to the forum. The real stuff works great and is no more trouble to clean than most of the subs.

 

[Blizzard of '93]

3F will do in yer .50 capper well. I always dry patch after every shot with a loose fit patch. I have used Pyro in my .50 but BP gets better groups. Pyro does great in my ROA however and seems little less fouling.

 

[nw_hunter]

Don't pay no mind to Rebel! He never cleans his guns anyway. Just leaves them outside till it rains. "How much wood, could a woodchuck chuck" Wash your mouse out Reb.........lol :youcrazy:
*******************************
Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea.

 

[Rebel]

As much as it rains around here i don't have to wait long. :grin: And 'sides, i said i Couldn't resist. So, how much can they?

 

[MikeChapin]

Welcome to the Forum. I use 3F in everything from a .32 on up to a .58 for both target and hunting. Many years back I tried Pyrodex but did not like the inconsistant groups I got. As I remember it wasn't that much different to clean up than black powder.

GOEX is an excellent powder. Made in the USA and is consistant in quality from batch to batch. Scheutzen and Grafs are also good and have pretty much the same burning characteristics of GOEX.

KIK is a Slovenian made powder that runs a little cheaper than GOEX and burns a little hotter. Swiss is a premium powder that is pricey but burns hotter so you use less and is just as consistant as GOEX. GOEX also has a premium powder that is competing with Swiss but I haven't tried it, so can't say anything about it one way or another.

I don't know how many stores carry black powder in your area but it is getting hard to find. Federal and state regulations are such that many places drop it because it is not worth the hassle. I buy mine by mail order from Powder Inc.. There are other dealers in the vendor list on this site where you can get powder.

 

[playfarmers]

I will agree with the rest. But would like to add that now I am using Stumpys Moose Snot for patch lube clean up is a brease. I can't belive how fast my rifle cleans up using 3f black powder and moose snot. We used to use Pyrodex and Wonderlube, and clean up was a pain, I will never go back.

 

[wvbuckbuster]

You have come to right place. Everyone here has been helpful since I first tuned in to this site! You say you are just target shooting and not hunting so you can have fun trying new ways. As you go along you will find what works best for you. Give'em a try. For my two cents worth; cleaning I use rubbing alcohol,Murphys Oil Soap and Proxide in equals amounts. Powder; Goex is no harder to clean than Pyrodex. Pyrodex is just as corrosive. Have fun shooting and trying new ways!!!

 

[bart_anastasi]

Never had a problem cleanking my guns and use a bucket of hot water and (Ivory bar soap). Tried other things on and off but keep going back to what works for me. Clean, rinse, dry, lube.

Just scrape a bit of that stuff in the water swish a bit and go to it.

 

[50cal.cliff]

When I frst started I too shot a sub. :shake: ! There I said it! :redface:
Since then I have discovered the world of real black. :grin: GEOX is my brand 2F, straight up! :rotf:
Believe me when I say this the real black powder is easier to clean than the sub.IMHO
Just a little warm water in the kitchen sink along with a little dish soap a patch and scrub till you start getting clean water running back throught the barrel. Then change patches till the patches start comeing out of the barrel clean, all the time keeping the nipple under the water. Scrub that down drum and nipple area with an ole tooth brush. Patch till dry and if not going back out patch with a little and oil and dry patch to remove any excess.

 

[Desert Ratxx]

Welcome WC, you'll love getting back into the sport. Like most others have said real black powder is the way to go. I haven't checked up in your neck of the woods but there's only one place that I know of here in Phx that sells it.

 

[Woodchuck Chuck]

Well, I've started calling around and have been told that I can't buy it in my county (Yavapai) so I got a list of gun shops up in the Flagstaff area that I'll call to check. I'd rather not go mail-order, but it might come to that. I noticed on Goex's website that they're pushing their own substitute powder (I forget the name)- any opinions on that?

 

[LFC]

I'm not sure there IS anyplace in Yavapai or Coconino County that sells real black powder. I called J&G Gun Sales in Prescott, and they didn't know anyone up there. The ONLY place in Maricopa County that sells it anymore is Thunderbird Cartridge Company, and, unfortunately for you, it is in Laveen, at the extreme southern end of the Phoenix area. Their phone number is (602) 237-3823. If you're going to be down in Phoenix during weekday business hours, give them a call a day in advance. That lets them dig out the black powder during their (once-daily) trip out to the special "bunker" they keep the black powder in, and then they can hold it in their main office for your pickup. Last I checked, they were selling it for $13 a pound--which was up from $12 a pound several weeks previously. When I called two weeks ago, they had stopped selling altogether for some weeks (they say) while they iron out some issues with the federal regulators--but they say they will resume selling once they get that out of the way. As Laveen is quite a drive, even from most of the Phoenix area, I try to just buy a bunch when I go. Also, the way prices are going up, it's probably not a bad idea to stockpile some. (Especially if you've got to drive from Prescott to do it.) They carry both Goex and Graf, for the same price, and I think the conventional wisdom is that Graf is just a bit more easy to clean than Goex. Goex comes in metal cans; Graf, in plastic jugs, kind of like a motor-oil jug, only a bit smaller. So: your first order of business is going to have to be to call Thunderbird and see when they're going to be selling it again, and arrange to pick up whatever quantity you need. (Actually, you may first want to figure out where you're going to keep it at home. I've been putting mine in fire-resistant safes, since I figure my biggest risk is that the kids may start a fire, or start playing with it, so a fire-resistant safe is probably the safest arrangement.)

Good luck!

P.S.: If you DO happen to run across a store that sells real black powder ANYWHERE in Arizona, it is your moral duty to get back on this forum and let us all know. If there's another place, we'd love to hear it.

P.P.S.: Another option may be to buy it at some rendezvous. The NMLRA is having an event at the Ben Avery Shooting Range (up a little more towards you, off I-17 just a little ways north of Phoenix, around Carefree Highway), I believe in late February. I gather that they usually have black powder for sale there. Kind of a wait, though.

 

[Desert Ratxx]

No opinions on the substitute stuff, never tried it and haven't heard anything about it. In a way I hope somebody comes up with a workable substitute for us flinter shooters with all of the regs they are slapping on the real stuff. Comus hit it on the head with everything that I know about black powder availability here in AZ. Good luck in Flagg. I have a buddy up there that tried the same thing and he couldn't find anyone. I don't know how many checked.

The guy that usually comes to the winternationals has good/fair pricing and has been there for many many years and seems to do good buisness so I'd assume (you know what that means) he'll be back.

 

[Stumpkiller]

You can always buy it from[url] www.powderinc.com[/url] but you have to get enough to justify the haz mat fee. Good excuse to shoot more! And it keeps for years in the unopened cans.