using triple seven

[Zonie]

It is my understanding that T-7 is a sugar based propellent and is not as corrosive as holy black. That is if U clean immediately after your shooting session. On the other hand pyrodex is perclorate based and is extremely corrosive and will eat your bore no matter how well U clean after shooting. What say youall?

I disagree.

Both T-7 and Pyrodex use Potassium Nitrate and use Potassium Perchlorate as the oxidizer.
Neither one of them is sugar based.

Both of them create various salts when they are shot and both of them require the same amount of cleaning when your done.

If the barrels are left uncleaned, fouling from black powder, Pyrodex and T-7 will corrode the bore.

 

[AZbpBurner]

It is my understanding that T-7 is a sugar based propellent and is not as corrosive as holy black. That is if U clean immediately after your shooting session. On the other hand pyrodex is perclorate based and is extremely corrosive and will eat your bore no matter how well U clean after shooting. What say youall?

I disagree.

Both T-7 and Pyrodex use Potassium Nitrate and use Potassium Perchlorate as the oxidizer.
Neither one of them is sugar based.

Both of them create various salts when they are shot and both of them require the same amount of cleaning when your done.

If the barrels are left uncleaned, fouling from black powder, Pyrodex and T-7 will corrode the bore.

Perchlorates & Nitrates are OXIDIZERS, but keep in mind they act on the fuel, which is carbon - in Black powder charcoal is the carbon fuel source; in 777 some form of sugar (not necessarily cane or that sugar falling offa your donuts), but a sugar that lends its' carbon to the process.

Look up the MSDS for 777 over on the Hodgdon website for more insight.

 

[Spikebuck]

Also, I've never experienced the infamous "crud ring" associated with Triple 7

I haven't either. But then I always wiped every two or three shots. I had never even heard of this until another person on this site PT'd me asking if I'd ever run into it. Every powder I've ever shot (except worthless American Pioneer) left crud if not wiped at some point, and a "ring" right in front of the load.

 

[Zonie]

You may be right or not.

Triple 7 contains , Potassium Perchlorate, Carbon, and graphite.

The MSDS does not say what the source of the carbon is.

It could be sugar, wood, coal, petroleum, natural gas or hundreds of other sources.

I think without knowing the source of the carbon it's difficult to say it is exclusively from sugar.

 

[Rat Trapper]

The crude ring so often talked about regarding Triple Seven is common to in-line rifles shooting sabots. I have never found a crude ring in any of my TC Hawken rifles. I think the patch lube or lube on conicals prevents it?? I find Triple Seven a very good powder for those of us that are using a cap lock. I have couple rifles that prefer it and shoot very well with it.

 

[Cowboy2]

Triple Seven is good stuff. It shoots well, and clean up is a breeze compared to bp. If you leave it in long enough, it'll rust your gun, but nowhere near as fast or aggressively as bp- I've tested it. Bp needs to be cleaned right now, assuming you aren't leaving your rifle next to the shower all night, Triple Seven gives you a very considerable cushion in comparison. Its all I use in my cap guns.

 

[J.G. Terry]

I cannot believe that you folks are saying the T7 is easier to clean than black powder. I have found that leaves a residue that is very difficult to clean and causes corrosion every place the residue touches. Cleaning with water is a joke. In my experience no more T7 period. The first and last bottle was a gift.

 

[BrownBear]

I wonder what you're using for lube, and if something is happening there. Among all the shooters I know, there are no experiences like yours. My buds are all using either TOW Mink Oil Tallow or home-built tallow lubes.

I ask because we all moved away from Wonderlube due to fouling/cleaning problems in our climate.

 

[izzyjoe]

Quite a few years back, I tried T7 in my T/C Hawken, it did ok for the first couple shots, then it got hard to load. I was not swabbing between shot's, cause I never did with Pyrodex. But I will say with the help of friends, and the fine folks on here, I have a whole new look on muzzleloading in general. Now I only use Goex, I have gone back and tried and tested every powder that I could get my hands on, and I came back to Goex. I did try some BH 209, and it does not work well with sidelocks, unless you use a starter charge of 5gr. Of 3f Goex or Pyrodex. But at $37 for 9 oz. of powder it did take me long to figure it ain't for me, but it is good powder, and I did shoot some wonderful groups with. But it will never be owned by me again. :wink:

 

[Cowboy2]

I think Brownbear's got it right about it reacting poorly with whatever lube you're using. In my experience, Triple Seven takes about 1/10th the amount of time and effort to clean that bp does- if that.

 

[Rat Trapper]

I cannot believe that you folks are saying the T7 is easier to clean than black powder. I have found that leaves a residue that is very difficult to clean and causes corrosion every place the residue touches. Cleaning with water is a joke. In my experience no more T7 period. The first and last bottle was a gift.

I have no idea of how you are screwing up the use of Triple Seven, but it works very well for me and I can shoot as much as I like with out wiping the barrel. I'd guess it is the lube you are using. clean up is as easy and takes no more time than using Goex.

 

[58CAL]

It only took me the cost of replacing one barrel to figure out that the substitute powders just don't work as well as real bp!!! How anything can clean easier than bp I cant understand. just cold water and a couple patches and its done and good to go next time I get the urge to smell real black!!I also don't know how your avoiding pitting in your barrel with the subs but my hats off to you. if its availability of real black powder inc ships right to your home and their price includes shipping and hazmat. its at least $8 cheaper than the subs. do what you want but real bp has never cost me or anyone else a barrel or lost time cleaning.

 

[Rat Trapper]

Clean up for me with Triple Seven or Goex takes the same amount of time. Once clean, I oil the barrel. I think those who pit a barrel, forgot to use the oil.

 

[Spikebuck]

Clean up for me with Triple Seven or Goex takes the same amount of time. Once clean, I oil the barrel. I think those who pit a barrel, forgot to use the oil.

I agree. I've have a couple guns that are >10 years old that have shot almost nothing but 777 and their bores are as bright a clean as the day they were brand new. So somewhere in the process people who have problems are missing or not being thorough enough in some step. Goex or 777, I never change the routine and never had problems with either.

 

[J.G. Terry]

Thanks for the comments on T7. I was shooting the stuff in a Knight Inline using Hornady sabots. The rifle was cleaned with water followed by Ballistol. The rifle did clean up but the residue was highly corrosive and difficult to remove inside and outside the gun. There was a heavy ring of residue in front of the BP. Finally, used water again and Ed's Red that got the gun clean. There may have been something in the gun that aggravated the problem. The rifle was used and abused and was bought for $75.00 but cleaned up and found to be in very good condition prior to using the T7. Will I use T7 in my Rice or GM barrels-not in this life time. :td:

 

[Col. Batguano]

With T-7, how soon do you need to jump on the cleaning before the crud ring hardens? I was shooting my Armi Sport 1861 Springfield yesterday, (geez that thing has lousy accuracy) and cleaned it (soap and warm water treatment) within about an hour of my last shot, which is soon enough I hope.

 

[Rat Trapper]

Thanks for the comments on T7. I was shooting the stuff in a Knight Inline using Hornady sabots. The rifle was cleaned with water followed by Ballistol. The rifle did clean up but the residue was highly corrosive and difficult to remove inside and outside the gun. There was a heavy ring of residue in front of the BP. Finally, used water again and Ed's Red that got the gun clean. There may have been something in the gun that aggravated the problem. The rifle was used and abused and was bought for $75.00 but cleaned up and found to be in very good condition prior to using the T7. Will I use T7 in my Rice or GM barrels-not in this life time. :td:

I always oil the barrel after cleaning when shooting any powder to include Triple Seven and Goex. Failure to use the oil, can allow your barrel to rust as some places in the home are not always dry. So don't blame the powder if you failed to oil the barrel.

 

[J.G. Terry]

The barrel was cleaned with water and Ballistol after using T7 and finally cleaned out with Ed's Red.I have been shooting and cleaning black power firearms-breech and muzzle-loaders-for several decades. No more T7. As far as I am personally concerned they can pack all that stuff up and parachute it into the tribal areas of Pakistan. Give me the traditional BP any day.

 

[Okie Hog]

Started using 777 when it first came out. i've fired at least 60 pounds of the stuff.

The 777 crud ring is much worse with inline guns that use 209 primers. It's important that all traces of oil be removed from the bore before loading 777.


Like blackpowder, Pyrodex contains sulfur: The sulfur makes it very corrosive. 777 does not contain sulfur. It's much less corrosive than either Pyrodex or blackpowder. Two of my loaner guns often went uncleaned for a couple weeks at a time with no corrosion from the use of 777.

Yep, every gun should cleaned ASAP after firing.
http://www.pyrodex.com/msds.html

 

[rodwha]

I've been wondering if the crud ring many speak of is due to the amount of powder, or now, as you have suggested, the type of ignition.

Have any of these rifles been sidelocks using percussion caps? If so what was your experience with them?