Utah has prohibited the use of scopes during muzzelaoding hunts.
https://wildlife.utah.gov/news/utah...datory-harvest-reporting-and-other-items.html
https://wildlife.utah.gov/news/utah...datory-harvest-reporting-and-other-items.html
Utah regulation chnges
- Thread starter Dobegrant
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
I really don't understand what the allowance for 1x scopes is. Is there really any such thing, and of what use would it be? These Wildlife Board people are politicians. I don't have any confidence they know much about what they're regulating.
CuNosecap
45 Cal.
1x; crosshairs vs. notch and blade?
Right. It's nonsense.
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2005
- Messages
- 1,677
- Reaction score
- 4,274
Anti-hunters have gained seats on these boards and panels in a number of States.
Maybe to help older folks with eye problems but since 1x it gives no magnification advantage? Sort of a tube sight in function just shorter????
They may not be historically correct, but with some one with vision problems they beat notch and blade hands down. Vortex Optics - Home
I’m a big believer in traditional, and if a traditional season is set off then traditional guns or bows or atl atl need be used.
But at the same time I think we need to make allowances for capabilities
I’m 66, it may not be many years till I need a peep or some sort of tube sight.
I need think long on this one, but that’s why God created pipes and good sipping adult beverages
NO ROOM FOR SCOPES IN ML HUNTS !!
I'm 81 & have been hunting with 'traditional' muzzleloaders since I was 13 with vision issues.
Those of us with poor eyesight issues & have been able to obtain a good accuracy in hunting & competition by moving their rear sight forward on the barrel or using a peep sight where allowed..
Back in the late 60s while organizing Idaho's first muzzleloader hunt we traditional hunters may have been a bit naive as we never dreamed ML hunting regs would be altered to accept what most traditional hunters refer to as scoped blackpowder zip guns.
Most rarely agree with regulations created in Eastern states but perhaps those states with smoothbore flintlock regulations were one step ahead of ethically challenged Fish & Game officials & commercial firearm corporation interests who purchase rule changes & place profit over maintaining America's traditional muzzleloading seasons.
In past decades we traditional ML hunters have debated this issue with F&G officials & zip gun manufactures' on several occasions with some success by recommending that these modern loading & ignition styled PB firearms be allowed during modern rifle hunting seasons.
I imagine the above traditional stance on muzzleloading may have riled some folks but it's important that some of America's traditions need to be valued above the almighty $$.
Relic shooter
I'm 81 & have been hunting with 'traditional' muzzleloaders since I was 13 with vision issues.
Those of us with poor eyesight issues & have been able to obtain a good accuracy in hunting & competition by moving their rear sight forward on the barrel or using a peep sight where allowed..
Back in the late 60s while organizing Idaho's first muzzleloader hunt we traditional hunters may have been a bit naive as we never dreamed ML hunting regs would be altered to accept what most traditional hunters refer to as scoped blackpowder zip guns.
Most rarely agree with regulations created in Eastern states but perhaps those states with smoothbore flintlock regulations were one step ahead of ethically challenged Fish & Game officials & commercial firearm corporation interests who purchase rule changes & place profit over maintaining America's traditional muzzleloading seasons.
In past decades we traditional ML hunters have debated this issue with F&G officials & zip gun manufactures' on several occasions with some success by recommending that these modern loading & ignition styled PB firearms be allowed during modern rifle hunting seasons.
I imagine the above traditional stance on muzzleloading may have riled some folks but it's important that some of America's traditions need to be valued above the almighty $$.
Relic shooter
Gollywomper
36 Cl.
I don’t think the spirit of a ML season ever envisioned turret scopes, smokeless MLs shooting 400 plus yards.
I think/hope we will be seeing several more states follow.
I think/hope we will be seeing several more states follow.
- Joined
- May 22, 2008
- Messages
- 628
- Reaction score
- 1,114
Muzzleloaders are easily as capable as any centerfire when loaded with modern projectiles and mounted with high-powered precision optics. Armed with an electronic laser range finder, 1200 yards and beyond is now considered long-range "hunting"(?)!. Crazy to even call this hunting.
This is why I believe the iron sights with lead "roundball only" regulation is so important for traditional and heritage seasons.
Banning the use of electronic laser range finders for ALL "big game hunting" would be a great start to ending the "long-range" hunting craze.
Most states forbid the use of electronic game calls, electronic communications (radios cellphones ect), electronic lights, and electronic sights for Big Game hunting...just baffles me why we allow electronic rangefinders.
The argument about ethics and wounding game without a rangefinder is a total exaggeration....more than likely you'll just miss, and learn to hunt better to get closer if you'd like to fill your tag.
This is why I believe the iron sights with lead "roundball only" regulation is so important for traditional and heritage seasons.
Banning the use of electronic laser range finders for ALL "big game hunting" would be a great start to ending the "long-range" hunting craze.
Most states forbid the use of electronic game calls, electronic communications (radios cellphones ect), electronic lights, and electronic sights for Big Game hunting...just baffles me why we allow electronic rangefinders.
The argument about ethics and wounding game without a rangefinder is a total exaggeration....more than likely you'll just miss, and learn to hunt better to get closer if you'd like to fill your tag.
Last edited:
cannonball1
62 Cal.
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2014
- Messages
- 649
- Reaction score
- 509
I'm afraid it has gone to far with ML's previously purchased. I am not happy with the small changes they have made, but at least they made this one change. Utah's Wildlife Board seems afraid to act on anything. I and others have been trying for years to get the muzzleloader hunt back to a primitive hunt. The more modern ML'ers that were purchased the harder it was to get them to move on anything, and to compound the issue is Utah and surrounding states are in jeopardy of losing our Mule Deer herd. Sportsmen are at them for mis-managing the herd thru more predator control, less hunters, and countless other things that a traditional muzzleloader was just one other thing to worry about. Enter politics on top of that - - Drives me nuts!!
I am to old to make much of a difference anymore. Write letter and such, but the younger generation could care less. They just like to go out and purchase a custom made hi-tech gun, night scope and 209. Let er fly at 500 yards at that poor ol deer. At least the sights cover up the deer now.
I am to old to make much of a difference anymore. Write letter and such, but the younger generation could care less. They just like to go out and purchase a custom made hi-tech gun, night scope and 209. Let er fly at 500 yards at that poor ol deer. At least the sights cover up the deer now.
HighUintas
45 Cal.
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2022
- Messages
- 514
- Reaction score
- 578
I was very surprised at their decision, but I am glad it was done.
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2009
- Messages
- 13,187
- Reaction score
- 7,506
You guys are making me think of over 40 years ago spending our weekends in the mountains south of Flaming Gorge. Our favorite place to camp was the third beaver dam from the top of a little valley. Never saw anyone else up there except the deer, moose and little critters.
Or a red dot also would work. I am in Utah and am glad to see this change. Modern muzzleloaders with magnified scopes are capable of 700+ yard shots which I don't like in a muzzleloader season. I wish it was more of a primitive season myself, without inlines.
Can't say I've had experience hunting with them, but 1x optics do exist, and they're very useful for certain things. Rapid target acquisition, and maintaining more field of view while on target. Where is this useful? Well, mostly against things with two legs. Great in combat or self defense scenarios. Thankfully I've never been in either, but I was an avid Airsoft player for a while, and I wouldn't trade my red dot for anything.
I could see it being useful for moving prey (Though duck hunting with nothing but a bead on a shotgun shows it can be done without). I could also see it being easier to see for some folks that have a hard time with irons. All in all I don't think it offers enough of an unfair advantage to warrant banning unless you're looking at it from a strict traditionalist mindset (Though rifle optics do date back to the 1800's, and even earlier if we're being flexible about the definition). But there are a lot of muzzle loaders out there that might as well be a modern hunting rifle that offer a whole lot more of an advantage than a 1x optic ever would.
You do know of course that telescopes were being used in the 1820s. That pretty much coinsides with the caplock ignition. If we take your thinking to archery no bows of modern design should be used. they are far to easy to use and shoot for traditional bow hunting.
For years crossbows were not allowed even though predating firearms by thousands of years .
I believe this predujice was based on the look of the shoulder stock.
Some are still thinking the aperture sight is not kosher, well it is not it dates to the Ottomans of if I recall around the 1300s. That should be traditional enough!
And why do some states only allow a single barrel rifle ?
I have never heard of this kind of regulation in areas restricted to modern shotguns .
If it loads from the front it should be ok to use, sans punt guns.
Blitz
Blitz
I whole heartedly agree. As we get older and see our oportunities and eyesight decrease our mindset will begin to change.
Blitz
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2020
- Messages
- 42
- Reaction score
- 77
I scoped a Hawken, improved my groups = better for the animal
