value of a custom flintlock

[Mark Sluka]

I have been shooting flintlocks for 4 years now. I have a t/c hawken in 50 cal that has served me well and i have no complaints.

I am thinking about getting a 54 cal.I can buy a new t/c hawken for $679.00 and i know that after i shoot it it will be worth half of what i paid for it.

After seeing roundballs tvm early virginia as well as the one picked up by gizamo I must say that they are beutiful rifles and it got me thinking.After checking out the tvm website i found that you could buy a tvm early virginia for about $975.00. Not quite $300.00 more than a t/c hawken. I know that the tvm rifles that i have seen have wood upgrades and are probably much more than the above price.

Anyway,my question is this.Since the T/C hawken will be worth half, used. What will the custom rifle be worth used? How well will the custom rifle hold its value?I know that many variables come into play but assuming a rifle that has been well taken care of.

Your thoughts?

 

[Vaino]

If the resale value of a used custom made MLer is your basis for buying one....don't buy one. There's a lot more to a custom MLer....to begin w/, your input into it's "beginning" is important and having a MLer that when sitting on a deer stand is sometimes admired is another advantage...it is for me. Even my first "ugly" flintlock becomes a thing of beauty when I'm in the squirrel woods as it performs it's intended purpose. There are esthetic "values" in owning a custom MLer whether lavishly embellished or plain that are hard to describe but make it all worthwhile in the eyes of the owner. If you don't have consideration for the above, you might be disappointed in a custom MLer.....Fred

 

[smoothy]

I agree with Flehto. Personally, I haven't obtained a gun yet that I thought of selling off in the future. I have both the old and new kind. I don't buy what I can't afford and hopefully I won't need to sell my guns off for sustinence in the future. Otherwise, they will be passed down to my sons. They are just too personal to part with and future value have no bearing to me.

 

[Onojutta]

Yep, if resale value is your top consideration, perhaps you should collect coins instead of muzzleloaders. But I would expect a hand made rifle to hold its value more than a production gun.

 

[ohio ramrod]

While some custom rifles sell well, the fact is that a custom rifle is made for one person's specifications limits the potential buyers to people who want the same specifications or else a "wall hanging work of art". I see factory guns selling for far more than they did years ago when I bought my last factory gun so I would assume that the factory guns would be as good as an investment, but prepared to wait years to get any appreciation. Meanwhile I would buy what I wanted to shoot and leave the appreciation in value for time.

 

[Mark Sluka]

No, The resale value would not deter me from buying custom, I was just curious.

I have harvested many deer over the years and as i get older i find myself enjoying the challenge of the hunt more than just the harvest.As a result i usually only hunt with archery gear and now flintlocks.

As in any sport, at least for me,I like to have good equipment. And also as with anything in life you get out of it what you put into it.I suppose someone that is well practiced with a cheap muzzleloader will be better off than a hunter with a custom gun that doesnt practice enough to become proficient with it.

 

[nchawkeye]

Not all custom guns or makers are the same...A true custom by a well know maker will appreciate in value but, it might be one that you don't want to take hunting...

I've never owned a factory made muzzleloader...Kinda funny because I started with these things in 1977 when I was 22...The fact is factory guns didn't appeal to me back then and don't know...

Buy a custom rifle for it's balance, beauty and reliability...

Like one of the guys mentioned a few days ago on another post, life's too short to carry and ugly gun...

 

[noworries]

I agree with Flehto. Personally, I haven't obtained a gun yet that I thought of selling off in the future. I have both the old and new kind. I don't buy what I can't afford and hopefully I won't need to sell my guns off for sustinence in the future. Otherwise, they will be passed down to my sons. They are just too personal to part with and future value have no bearing to me.

I was actually thinking about this as I was driving home from a job today... I have read posts where someone wants to sell a gun to buy a new one. I understand the economics (especially with the way thing are currently)of not being able to readily have cash lying around to buy a new weapon but for me, once I buy a gun it is a permanent thing unless it is passed along to a family member WITH the understanding that should the feel the need to sell it they sell it back to me and I have now had the pleasure of rebuying firearms twice. Just a flaw in my character I suppose. One thing I am having trouble coming to grips with however, is actually shooting the custom Hawken I have now had for 3 years...

 

[Coot]

There are many variables at play re custom guns. As a starting point, it will not be worth as much as a like gun would cost to have built. (Because the buyer can have every option made to his choice on a new custom build). But, building costs only seem to increase with time so a used gun will follow the upward trend over time (somewhat true for factory guns too). If it is well cared for, being lightly used will not decrease value as much as a a factory gun - many custom guns are test fired and sighted in by their builders so the "NIB, unfired" condition is not encountered as much. The wild card so to speak is the reputation of the builder. Sort of like fine art - as the builder becomes better known, the value can increase dramatically. Of course if the builder never acquires a big reputation, then it is "just a nice gun" & as first mentioned, will not be worth more than the current cost of having another made.
For maximum future return, I would first look at an original, second a custom & third a factory gun. Re the custom, I am assuming a quality builder - custom only means made to order & some "custom" guns out there are hardly worth the cost of their components, and I am assuming that the gun is not "too custom" - by that I mean that the customer wanted an odd pull length, exaggerated cast off, a mixture of styles/schools, with an exotic tropical wood, ect. Might be well made & is certainly custom but no investment value at all.
Lastly, we can expect some events to influence interest and therefore prices. The centennial of the ACW sparked a big interest in CW era replicas which were of course factory made but the originals went up a lot back then. The bicentennial of the revwar did the same for weapons of that era.
Perhaps others have followed the custom market longer & will have more specific information.

 

[Dphar]

A GOOD custom is an investment they ALWAYS appreciate.
Saying they are made just for one person and thus are just a wall hanger is simply not true except in possibly some extreme case. Left handed rifles are harder to sell for example.
I have had several by others and I make them myself. Its not as though they are made for someone with a gross physical deformity.
Many are made to the same stock dimensions as the originals and are not fit to the person that orders them anyway.

Dan

 

[hanshi]

It takes time for any gun to increase in value along with other factors. The real value of a custom gun lies in how special it is to the owner. In general, nothing you get from a factory will be of the quality of a hand built gun. Since you mentioned looking over a website, call and ask questions and don't just stop with the site. If you order a gun there will much discussion with the builder anyway. Also things such as upgrades in wood are not as pricey as you may think.

I am fortunate to have both factory and custom guns. I have occasionally sold a seldom used factory gun to finance a custom; I would not consider selling one of my customs. They are not particularly valuable and are pretty basic as guns go, but for me they are very special. Going the custom route is seldom a mistake.

 

[steve nagy]

Just as any other product the more esoteric the end result the smaller the appreciative audience, e.g, there are more buyers of Impalas than Corvettes. I know of makers whose largest audience is the wealthy who buy their rifles in order to hang them above a mantle. That said, I want the end result that is distinct and unusual. Personally, a mass produced rifle holds far less appeal than does a rifle made by a master craftsman. I'll pay a higher price once versus paying for a bargain several times over.

 

[ebiggs1]

I, also, have given some thought and research to acquiring a “custom” flintlock. But in my case I think I will build it myself. Please take no offence to this but basically from what I can learn most custom guns are actually custom stocks. Because the makers buy locks, that anyone can buy and barrels, that anyone can buy and build those wonderful works of art. I have a complete wood shop and some walnut that I have stored for 30 years that is gorgeous. I have been toying with some jigs to inlet parts with my router. I have two sets of kitchen cabinets to make and just maybe the gun could be next.

 

[D Yager]

I believe the custom or one of a kind piece will hold value far better than any production gun. I am a custom builder myself, I also keep an eye on Track of the Wolf's website to see what the current values look like. I see a lot of guns go by that are made by Gary White, Nathan Stephenson etc. It seems to come down to what will the market stand. If you are buying a custom flinter why would you want to get rid of it? You are paying for the piece to fit you with furniture you specify. I tend to think of these as being something you would pass down from one generation to the next.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

$800 plus for the best parts money can find, and a nice hunk of TN black walnut.
5 months of 4-6 hours a week.

The rifle Ill carry the rest of my days......

Priceless

 

[Stumpkiller]

I had a Kit Ravenshear Light Infantry fusil that I used for 15 years, adding some dents and gouges in the process, and sold for $75 more than I paid for it. Not a great investment. That's about $500 less than I would have got at only 2% annual interest if I'd have left the money in a savings account for the same time.

But I got to enjoy a fine musket for years and years and that has a great value to me.

 

[David W.]

I, also, have given some thought and research to acquiring a “custom” flintlock. But in my case I think I will build it myself. Please take no offence to this but basically from what I can learn most custom guns are actually custom stocks. Because the makers buy locks, that anyone can buy and barrels, that anyone can buy and build those wonderful works of art. I have a complete wood shop and some walnut that I have stored for 30 years that is gorgeous. I have been toying with some jigs to inlet parts with my router. I have two sets of kitchen cabinets to make and just maybe the gun could be next.

I would like to clarify that locks and other parts are not neccesarily production made. My Bedford County has a hand made lock, patch box, triggers, trigger guard, nose cap and thimbles. The theory of all a custom maker does is in assembly and fitting does not hold true. :v

 

[B Shipman]

Any production gun is worth only a fraction of what you pay for it. You not only pay the workers , you pay the secretaries and the boss, the advertising, the middle man and the retailer. And on top of that you pay a 17% manufacturers tax. With a semi-custom like TVM,Caywood, etc. you're paying parts and labor basically. There's no question as to value if you believe 2+2 equals 4.
The value and resale value of true custom muzzleloaders depends entirely on the builder.
To evaluate them by saying anyone can buy a Chambers lock and a Getz or Rice barrel is so missing the point it's rediculous. If not, then why do most guns on Track with all the stuff sell for little more than $2000 and a Judson Brennan with the same parts and basic description sell for 5 figures.
Present value and potential value are not the same. A TVM is a better value than any production gun. But it's future value in both cases is inflation minus use.
To go beyond this, it's up to the customer to be able to disern that "IT" factor. Few can just as few gunmakers can.

 

[Mike Brooks]

What will the custom rifle be worth used?

All depends on who built the gun. The name on the barrel and the quality associated with that name makes all the difference.
I ALWAYS keep in mind resale value when I buy ANY gun. Nothing I enjoy more than buying a gun, shooting it and enjoying it for a time then selling it for 30% to 50% MORE than I paid for it. Every once in a while I'll break even, but that is a worse case scenario and generally only happens when I have a new toy in sight and I'm in a hurry to sell so I can buy the new toy. If you are buying guns you're losing money on you're paying too much for them or are buying the wrong guns.

 

[gizamo]

Mike makes some very good points. Sometimes it's the gun makers reputation that carries the day...but once in awhile ~ it's the individual gun.

I've been lucky in finding a Caywood in a used gun rack. My TVM is also a used gun. Both were like new and I was able to buy them at great prices. I'm happy with the way they fit me and they will always hold their value...considering the price I paid.

The finest custom gun I own is unsigned. I was able to trace it's history back to NH in the 1970's and then the trail went dead. It is a Southern Mountain style gun and without any further knowledge of who the maker is...is just another Flintlock. But I shoot that one better than any other.

To me, it's priceless. :wink:


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