Variations on flinters is making my head 'splode

[tony ennis]

I've been looking for the right flintlock kit.

I started looking around and there at a million variations. For example, go to the TotW site - there are probably 15 different categories of flint and then variations for each one. For the most part, they all look the same to me!

Is there a site that shows the prototypical rifle styles?

For example, my son has nearly completed a late Lancaster kit. It's a very elegant rifle. A fellow at the gun club has an 'early Virgina' flint - it's clearly different.

I feel like I'm drinking from a fire hose.

 

[rabjr]

TotW probably has the best pic's of the different schools of guns under "gun kits". Or a couple of other sites,
http://www.longrifles-pr.com/
http://www.muzzleloaderbuilderssupply.com/

A couple of builders sites that may help,
http://www.fowlingguns.com/
http://www.roystroh.com/

Isn't research wonderful! :wink:

 

[J.D.]

http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/
http://americanhistoricservices.com/html/home.html
http://kindigrifles.com/
Click on the "available" tab

There is also a virtual museum of originals on the American Longrifles site.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

http://www.flintlocks.com/

 

[Zonie]

They all look alike to a lot of people.

That is, they all look alike if your just looking at them without noticing several things that are different. Some of these things are not easily seen in photographs of them.

The older guns usually have thicker stocks overall and in the butt.
The older guns do not have deep crescent butt plates. They are wide and fairly flat. The newer the gun, the narrower the butt is and the deeper the crescent buttplate.

The really old guns like the Christian's Spring are large bore fairly thick rifles that show a lot of similarities with the Jaeger's from Germany.

The Lancaster has a straight comb which looks a great deal like modern rifles.

The Reading usually has a slightly humped comb often called a Roman Nose. The originals were never as extreme as the Roman Nosed rifle sold by Dixie.

The Bedford has a LOT of drop at the butt and the top is almost straight from the wrist. The lack of a comb and the steep drop of the butt has made some folks call it a hockey stick.

The rail on the rear of the trigger guard is also something that changed over the years.
The early guns rails stood off from the wrist rather proudly. As the years went by the rails were moved closer to the wrist until they almost touched it. The rails were maintained until the mid 1800's when their popularity seemed to die out leaving only the loop of the trigger guard.

The early guns were usually large bored and the bore size was reduced as time passed.
A .54 or .58 caliber was often seen on the longrifles of the mid 1700's but this size was reduced to about .50 in the late 1700's.
In the early 1800's the bores often were in the .45 size range.
This is speaking of the East Coast guns of course.

In the West in the early 1800's large bored guns were in order.

When you look at the photographs of longrifles look at the height and shape of the comb, the curve of the bottom of the stock (if any) and the buttplate.

Of course there are countless other things that are different between the various schools of the longrifles but these things are the easiest to see.

As for what gun you want to have/make? That is something that only you can answer.
My advice is that you get as many different books as you can and look thru them. Often a library will have these.
Some of the best are Shumways "RIFLES OF COLONIAL AMERICA" Vol I & II and Kindigs "THOUGHTS ON THE KENTUCKY RIFLE IN ITS GOLDEN AGE".

 

[rafterob]

I think your son has excellent taste. Don't let all those other styles lead you down the path of ruination! After all, everyone knows that a late Lancaster style rifle is the best there is :bow: On the other hand, the half stock Vincent style is really starting to grab at me (that may belong in the percussion section) :surrender: Your local library may have some good books on Longrifles. Look at lots of pictures and one particular style will tend to catch your fancy over all the others.

 

[zampilot]

Your head ain't the only one to 'xplode!
Mine did several times as I chose what to build.....I think there are some ..particles around my workbench..But I did pick the two rifles I wanted to build and have the second almost done. Books for sale soon!

 

[Stumpkiller]

Here is a website that gives an overview of the various stock profiles and some history.
http://www.cherrytreefamily.com/parifleschools.htm

Note that this is by no means the last word. It's just a good comparative single point source. You can find 42 other websites that will disagree on any individual item (skip any website with the words "Shimmel" or "barn gun").

 

[trdigger]

You're preachin' to the choir brother! I am losing my mind trying to decide what to build first, but I may have decided. Early Lancaster for me.......I think......or maybe a Virgina..........those Late Lancasters are cool too............but there's something about that Hawken name........AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, SOMEBODY STOP ME!

 

[CoyoteJoe]

That's an interesting site Stumpkiller. I find it particularly interesting that they use a photo of the Pedersoli Blue Ridge as an example of the York school. Many people have said that rifle is not a representation of any original style.

 

[tg]

Be sure to look at photos of originals not reproductions or yoy will get started on the wrong track right off the bat in trying to understand the different types of rifles, and I would like to know what the gun who says the Pedorsali gun is like a York gun was drinking when he made that comparison, I think they just put one of those at the top and bottom of that section which in itself does not stir much faith in the site as a whole except for the references to Erics work and possibly some others, photos of original guns would have been a much better way to go.

 

[tony ennis]

I live in Louisville, I'll go to the Frazier Arms Museum - it has wall after wall of rifles. And everything else.

I've been there but not since I got interested in flints. I hope the rifles are well labeled.

 

[Zoar]

tony----Your name is tony, you have an addiction. You are now a flintlock-man.

Drink from the firehose. The water is great! :thumbsup:

 

[Bruce Bogart]

Hey Tony google Ron Gable Guns and check out some of his liturature. Even just looking at the phamelets on line will guive you an idea of the sillohuette of some of the "schools".
Some are hard to distinguish from others. Try a few guns (most shooters willl let you shoulder and maybe even fire a couple rounds) to make certain you like a particular style. I know some guys like more drop, or a less straight stock, etc, etc.

 

[Tommy Bruce]

Relax a bit and don't worry about which one you are going to build first, now you have the bug and will do several so just make a list of the ones you like and get started. :grin:

 

[tg]

Do keep in mind that the silouette is just a small part of that which identifies a gun school and can be very deceiveing with some origial builders guns originals or photos of them is the only real way to get a grip on it.

 

[Stumpkiller]

True enough. But if his head is going to explode just on the thought of multiple schools then being faced with distinctions like whether the endcap is cast or sheet brass, whether the wrist is thicker side-to-side than it is tall or how high up the vertical barrel flat the stock channel extends might rupture his spleen as well.

We have to start somewhere.

 

[Bruce Bogart]

Hey Tony drive up to Friendship Indiana this weekend for the day. You will see more muzzleloaders than you can imagine. They even may still be allowing newbies to shoot on the range with assistance and a loner gun. Check out how some shoulder (or bicep) and what you find comfortable to find a sight picture on. There will be many people there that will lend advice and show you some cool stuff!
Your not that far away!

 

[tony ennis]

I'll be at Friendship on Saturday. I've joined a black powder group called "The Wilderness Rangers." They've been very generous with their rifles, powder, lead, and knowledge. Now it's time I get off my arse and build a rifle.

 

[Bruce Bogart]

Enjoy it Tony, but take your fat wallet with you. So much to see and buy. Muzzxleloaders are a good bunch, sometimes surly, but a good bunch nonetheless.