Very frustrating range experience with my flintlock

[Flint311]

I may have jumped in a little late and couldn't read all the possibilities of the problem. What I did skim, there's lots of good advise.

I, too, sometimes use a bronze bore brush. If you do, point the muzzle down. The brush won't gather the crud and pull it out. It deposits it in the breech, especially when you reload. The vent lets the air out as the load is pushed in. Any particles will go with the air and plug the vent. Try it (if you want to pull a load again) and check the vent. Many times there's a little hard piece of crud in the vent, which may happen in a patten breech, also.
Just my $.02

Good luck and don't give up :thumbsup: . Once you find what it likes, it'll run so smooth you may forget most of these problems.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Jim. YOu may think there is nothing wrong with the Nock patent breech design for flintlocks, but I humbly disagree. It was marketed back when only flintlocks had been used, and everyone knew exactly what had to be done to keep a flintlock shooting, from loading to cleaning it. Today, that knowledge is very hard won by shooters.

The design is poor because of the right angle bend needed to expose the heat of the burning priming powder to the main powder charge. If you are injecting fire into the barrel by using a percussion cap, or modern primer, there is much less of a problem. With a flintlock, sure, and quick ignition requires that the powder be in closer proximity to the vent hole. I realize that some shooters don't have the same idea of " Quick" that I do, because they have never heard, or fired a properly tuned, and set up flintlock. That may why we see this differently. Thanks for the comment. Its always refreshing to have someone disagree with me politely. :hatsoff:

 

[Parzifal]

Allot has already been said, so I will be brief.

Breakfree is a great bore preservative, but it is not a black powder cleaner. Plain water or soap and water for cleaning. Dry well and coat the bore with breakfree. Like Paul said, let the rifle stand upright for a coupla hours then store it muzzle down to allow excess oil to drain.

Breakfree is designed to prevent carbon deposits, so it works well as a ML bore preservative. However, I do suggest that you swab it out with an alcohol saturated patch prior to loading the first shot.

I agree!

I clean with water, then I use a old bronze boar brush wrapped in steel wool "sticks together nice"

Scrub the barell and breech with that and then a bit of break free.

Then If Im going to shoot I dump in some alcohol clean it with a rag tied to the ram rod tip.

Done, clean as a whistle, and dry as a bone.

My bores are like mirrors.

 

[MSW]

i'll just add my two cents worth to the already good advice:

don't give up on flintlocks in general, or yours in particular.

odd though it may sound now, when you get this problem solved, you will enjoy shooting your flinter more than just about anything you can do while wearing clothes.

 

[MikeChapin]

I guess I'll throw in my nickle ninty eights worth. You have gotten good advice. A friend of mine has the same rifle and his problems were caused by the small firing channel in the breech.

First of all go to soap and water or a specialized black powder solvent to clean the rifle. Break Free will not cut it for cleaning BP residue. Due to the small size of the breech channel, my friend started using a .22 brush with a patch wrapped around it. That did the job for him.

I'm one of those people who advocate not pulling the flash hole liner when cleaning but the design of these rifles almost mandates it so you can get into the chamber and clean it. When you pull the liner, clean the threads well with a Q-Tip and use anti-seize on the thread when you put it back in. This will lube the threads and prevent wear from taking the liner in and out. It will also prevent the threads from gunking up and making it difficult to remove.

 

[wikinger]

I was under the impression that the silicon in an oil like Breakfree could adversely affect accuracy in a black powder rifle. Seems like I read this in some black powder book a while back.
Is this not true?

 

[mmahlock]

Paul, as you said there was nothing wrong with the Nock Patent Breach. The problem with the new guns made as illustrated is that they don't think about what they are doing and just scale down the 58 cal. design making the channel between the false breach and breach smaller and smaller until if you are not shooting on a hot dry day it just won't work. If they would just keep this channel the diameter they used for 58 cal on all smaller calibers where would for the most part be no problem.

This whole situation is one of laziness on the part of the manufactures and their desire to make manufacturing as simple quick and easy as possible.

Personally I prefer a flat breach flush with the touch hole. Simple is better. :hatsoff:

 

[paulvallandigham]

In .58 caliber, I agree. There is nothing wrong with the Nock design in that size bore. And you are correct about the manufacturers being to blame for not understanding the limitations of that design in reduced dimensions.


I have, BTW, see .58 cal. Zuave muskets choke up on hot August, humid days in Northern Illinois, so that even in these guns, special care has to be taken in cleaning the guns to keep them shooting.

I also prefer a flat breechplug design, with the vent located slightly in front of the face of the plug. Its a simple design, well proven in all kinds of weather, and it works.

 

[kevthebassman]

Lots of good advice given. Breakfree is a good cleaner and preservative, but not well suited to black powder. I clean first with soapy water (though I've been using black powder solvent lately and have been pleased with the results) then I do one patch with breakfree and then a dry patch run up and down the bore several times to make sure and blow most of the oil out the touch hole. I haven't tried using alcohol to flush it out later, but then I've never had a problem with ignition.

 

[Zonie]

Yup. The old "slip of the finger" :grin:
My post should have said 1787, not 1887.

As I understand it, Nocks Patent breech was designed for a shotgun so I agree that scaling it down for use in smaller bored rifles is not a good design.

A similar breech design exists in the Hoppe's .45 caliber target pistol.
Anyone who owns one of these knows that although they are a percussion gun they only fire about once every five tries.
Looking down the barrel of my Hoppe's pistol revealed that it had a little 1/16 inch (or so) hole connecting the crossdrilled "flame channel" to this hole so absolutly no powder could get back to the nipple.
After buying an "aircraft length drill" 12 inches long X 1/8 inch in diameter and drilling out this tiny hole the guns reliability improved.
Now it fires 4 out of 6 times. :rotf:

 

[MikeChapin]

I was under the impression that the silicon in an oil like Breakfree could adversely affect accuracy in a black powder rifle. Seems like I read this in some black powder book a while back.
Is this not true?

Could not tell you since I don't use Breakfree to protect the bore in my rifles. I do know that many petroleum based oils turn to asphalt in the heat and pressure of firing a ball and will gunk up a barrel fast. I use Ballistol for bore protection and have never had a problem with it. Many people use non-petroleum based lubes with the same result.

 

[J.D.]

I was under the impression that the silicon in an oil like Breakfree could adversely affect accuracy in a black powder rifle. Seems like I read this in some black powder book a while back.

To my knowledge, BreakFree does not contain silicon. It does, however, contain teflon which eliminates carbon build up.

Breakfree was designed to eliminate the carbon build up that plagued the old M16A1, and it did a very good job.

I have not experienced any loss of accuracy in the many years Breakfree has been used in my guns, BTW.

 

[Rockrivr1]

I completely stripped down my rifle last weekend and removed the touch hole liner. The channel was a complete mess. I used regular hot water and a little soap to clean the bbl. I kept the touch hole channel unblocked and the water came out with all kinds of goop. I really must of gumed it up by using breakfree. Last time I'll do that.

After cleaning and making sure the bbl was dry I headed out to the range last night and she shot fairly well. The only problem I had this time around was that the flint wouldn't create a spark. I learned how to knapp the flint for the first time and after doing that, the gun went off each time. Still cleaned in between each shot and I'lls strip down the rifle again tonight to clean it again. Lots of work, but I'm pretty happy with the end results.

Thanks again for all the advise!

 

[Zoar]

Rock---That is great. Really. It seems sometimes we all sometimes fall in the trap of using something modern because it supposedly works better but it actually causes problems with black powder/flinters. So glad you figured out is was the modern cleaning agent... you don't want to throw the gun down too many times in anger and disgust

I made the mistake once of trying a BP substitute.... geee was THAT frustrating.

 

[ronrryan]

You will soon find a thorough and efficient cleaning procedure that will just be part of your normal routine. You will enjoy and look forward to successful range visits. It takes a while to "get the hang of it" but we all go through it. Usually the old ways are the product of years of experimentation. Good smoke, ron in FL

 

[SimonKenton]

Rock,

Does the hole in you liner line up with the pan correctly? The bottom of the opening should be JUST above the level of the pan so the flash JUMPS into the charge. That's been a sore point for many buyers of foreign made flinters.

-Ray

 

I have found that plugging the vent hole and filling the barrel with hydrogen peroxide will also clean out a lot of that crud in the barrel. I'll do this after a long morning of shooting and then flush with a little water and dry it. Makes the afternoon shooting a lot easier and the cleanup a whole lot easier.

 

I made the mistake once of trying a BP substitute.... geee was THAT frustrating.

I shoot 777 in my flintlock all the time and never have any problems.

 

[brubincam]

-----do you use a bit of BP down your barrel before the 777--

 

[paulvallandigham]

Hydrogen Peroxide is EXTREMELY corrosive. I cannot recommend to you that you use this in any state. Its not needed.

Water with soap in it will remove all the crud-- mostly carbon, graphite, and sulpur, with a few salts from the Potassium Nitrate-- from the barrel without subjecting the steel to Hydrogen Peroxide. Use skin temperature water, and dish soap, to clean the guns at the end of a shooting session.

At the range, a little liquid cleaner, like Windex, sprayed on a cleaning patch will dig out amazing amounts of crud between shots. For that matter, spit on a cleaning patch, used correctly, will remove a lot of the crud.

I am a big fan of the liquid cleaners, like Hoppes Black Solve for use on the range, particularly when its hot and humid out. You do, however, have to take the time to dry the barrel thoroughly after using them, by using a couple of dry cleaning patches down the barrel.