Very Hard trigger

[Curley 50 cal]

I am seeking suggestions as to how to light the pull of this trigger. Only Identification on the lock is “Spain” with no markings on the barrel or numbers to be found anywhere. Photos of the lock are attached. Thanks for the help.

 

[Stykbow]

I’m no expert, but here is my experience with this issue. I inherited an old CVA Hawken with the same problem, but with double triggers. I tore the lock apart and polished every part. No dice, didn’t help. I have revisited it several times and have finally decided that the lock and trigger mechanism are not aligned properly. Only thing I could come up with and I’m not going to attempt a major overhaul on that old rifle. Hopefully one the experts here will chime in and give a better answer. If they do maybe we’ll both benefit.

 

[Phil Coffins]

Not much the average person can do with that lock safely. The sear spring is bearing to far back on the sears tail. It is of very low quality and other then oiling it is what it is. The trigger also is poorly set up with the pivot pin at a position giving the least leverage to move the sear.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Me, I would analyse the sear and tumbler interaction. Any sign of hooking apparent by observing if the trigger movement moves the hammer rearward by the tiniest amount means the tumble and sear needs stoning.
If the above is not happening and stoning is not required the small spring can be lightened. However, my money, if I was a gambling man would be on the sears needing a stone.

 

[ohio ramrod]

Me, I would analyse the sear and tumbler interaction. Any sign of hooking apparent by observing if the trigger movement moves the hammer rearward by the tiniest amount means the tumble and sear needs stoning.
If the above is not happening and stoning is not required the small spring can be lightened. However, my money, if I was a gambling man would be on the sears needing a stone.

As stated,the hammer is probably moving back as you slowly pull the trigger which means you are fighting the main spring as well as the sear spring. You need the contact angle of the sear and tumbler to be 90 degrees, less than ninety you fight the main spring, over 90 it will not hold.Also a lighter sear spring can be "cold formed" from steel "banding straps" that will help.All you need is a good file, heavy shear type metal shears, a small rod to form around, a pair of channel locks, and LOTS of patience.

 

[excess650]

Is that crud around the head of the sear screw or a wave washer?

When you pull the trigger, does the hammer move rearward? If so the sear nose and notch in the hammer aren't correct.

If that sear spring is too heavy, it can be lightened by tapering it.

The trigger pivot pin may be too far away from the sear arm, and below it as well. Both of these will contribute to a heavy pull.

 

[bigstick6017555]

I would also think that the star/wave washer on sear screw would hinder smooth operation if tightened to much

 

[Artificer]

Hi Curley,

The full cock notch looks like it is angling backwards (meaning the trigger pull keeps increasing before it finally goes off), as ohio ramrod mentioned.

However, there are two bigger issues. The lock needs to be correctly disassembled and the star washer under the head of the Sear Screw needs to be removed. Now, when you tighten the Screw Screw back down, it must not be tight. You need to screw it in and then back off a least 1/8 turn so the Sear can freely rotate.

Edited to add: The idea behind that star washer MAY have been to back the head of the sear screw off enough so the sear can move freely. The advice above will correct that.

I'm just guessing on the second, but I would check for to see if the bottom of the mainspring is binding on the wood inside the lock plate mortise, since that Mainspring goes WAY further down beyond the edge of the lock plate.

Gus

 

[rafterob]

That is the most simplistic lock I have seen, Interesting the hammer does not have a shoulder that stops on the lock plate and that duty is relegated to the hammer-nipple contact alone.

 

[Curley 50 cal]

Hi Curley,

The full cock notch looks like it is angling backwards (meaning the trigger pull keeps increasing before it finally goes off), as ohio ramrod mentioned.

However, there are two bigger issues. The lock needs to be correctly disassembled and the star washer under the head of the Sear Screw needs to be removed. Now, when you tighten the Screw Screw back down, it must not be tight. You need to screw it in and then back off a least 1/8 turn so the Sear can freely rotate.

Edited to add: The idea behind that star washer MAY have been to back the head of the sear screw off enough so the sear can move freely. The advice above will correct that.

I'm just guessing on the second, but I would check for to see if the bottom of the mainspring is binding on the wood inside the lock plate mortise, since that Mainspring goes WAY further down beyond the edge of the lock plate.

Gus

Excellent suggestions thank you!!!

 

[Curley 50 cal]

Hi Curley,

The full cock notch looks like it is angling backwards (meaning the trigger pull keeps increasing before it finally goes off), as ohio ramrod mentioned.

However, there are two bigger issues. The lock needs to be correctly disassembled and the star washer under the head of the Sear Screw needs to be removed. Now, when you tighten the Screw Screw back down, it must not be tight. You need to screw it in and then back off a least 1/8 turn so the Sear can freely rotate.

Edited to add: The idea behind that star washer MAY have been to back the head of the sear screw off enough so the sear can move freely. The advice above will correct that.

I'm just guessing on the second, but I would check for to see if the bottom of the mainspring is binding on the wood inside the lock plate mortise, since that Mainspring goes WAY further down beyond the edge of the lock plate.

Gus

Hi Curley,

The full cock notch looks like it is angling backwards (meaning the trigger pull keeps increasing before it finally goes off), as ohio ramrod mentioned.

However, there are two bigger issues. The lock needs to be correctly disassembled and the star washer under the head of the Sear Screw needs to be removed. Now, when you tighten the Screw Screw back down, it must not be tight. You need to screw it in and then back off a least 1/8 turn so the Sear can freely rotate.

Edited to add: The idea behind that star washer MAY have been to back the head of the sear screw off enough so the sear can move freely. The advice above will correct that.

I'm just guessing on the second, but I would check for to see if the bottom of the mainspring is binding on the wood inside the lock plate mortise, since that Mainspring goes WAY further down beyond the edge of the lock plate.

Gus

Gus I want to thank you for your superb observations. I tried to remove the sear screw, but it wanted to strip the screw slot. I was afraid to muck with it. HOWEVER your comments on the mainspring being way below the lock plate bore fruit. The mainspring was indeed pressing into the wood and actually made a dent. I took an electric router and cut a trough to accommodate the protruding mainspring and this greatly reduced the pull as well as easing the cocking motion both at half and full cock. You are the man!!! It will go to the range Friday for a trial run.

 

[BS]

I’m no expert, but here is my experience with this issue. I inherited an old CVA Hawken with the same problem, but with double triggers. I tore the lock apart and polished every part. No dice, didn’t help. I have revisited it several times and have finally decided that the lock and trigger mechanism are not aligned properly. Only thing I could come up with and I’m not going to attempt a major overhaul on that old rifle. Hopefully one the experts here will chime in and give a better answer. If they do maybe we’ll both benefit.

Have you asked yourself why they make replacement locks for CVA?

 

[Stykbow]

Have you asked yourself why they make replacement locks for CVA?

No, but only because I’m not willing to change the rifle at all. It belonged to my late FIL. I just can’t bring myself to alter it that much. It may never fire again and that’s fine with me.

 

[necchi]

I’m no expert, but here is my experience with this issue. I inherited an old CVA Hawken with the same problem, but with double triggers.

Stykbow,
If you have what you say, then you haven't adjusted the lock screws or the trigger assembly properly. The tutorials for the CVA double trigger/fly detent lock rifle adjustments have been available here on the forum for a decade.
What Curly 50 cal has is completely different than the CVA set-up you have.
p.s. if you have patience,, I might be able to dig back far enough to find it for ya,, send a pm if your interested,,
John,,

 

[Britsmoothy]

Gus I want to thank you for your superb observations. I tried to remove the sear screw, but it wanted to strip the screw slot. I was afraid to muck with it. HOWEVER your comments on the mainspring being way below the lock plate bore fruit. The mainspring was indeed pressing into the wood and actually made a dent. I took an electric router and cut a trough to accommodate the protruding mainspring and this greatly reduced the pull as well as easing the cocking motion both at half and full cock. You are the man!!! It will go to the range Friday for a trial run.

That ^^^^ has completely baffled me!

 

[Artificer]

Gus I want to thank you for your superb observations. I tried to remove the sear screw, but it wanted to strip the screw slot. I was afraid to muck with it. HOWEVER your comments on the mainspring being way below the lock plate bore fruit. The mainspring was indeed pressing into the wood and actually made a dent. I took an electric router and cut a trough to accommodate the protruding mainspring and this greatly reduced the pull as well as easing the cocking motion both at half and full cock. You are the man!!! It will go to the range Friday for a trial run.

You are most welcome.

Gus

 

[Dude]

Sounds like the sear screw is loctited in. Some heat will break it down to allow removal.

 

[Artificer]

That ^^^^ has completely baffled me!

There is no bridle to retard the movement of the tumbler and therefore the hammer from going down too far. Plus since the hammer goes down that far once lock is dismounted, that means there is no shoulder or shelf on the body of the hammer to also keep it from going down too far.

Both of these mean the mainspring will go below the bottom of the lock plate and thus jam up in the wood when the hammer is down, but the rest of the geometry of the lock looks so far off, I thought it was also happening on full cock, which it seems it was.

Gus

 

[Britsmoothy]

There is no bridle to retard the movement of the tumbler and therefore the hammer from going down too far. Plus since the hammer goes down that far once lock is dismounted, that means there is no shoulder or shelf on the body of the hammer to also keep it from going down too far.

Both of these mean the mainspring will go below the bottom of the lock plate and thus jam up in the wood when the hammer is down, but the rest of the geometry of the lock looks so far off, I thought it was also happening on full cock, which it seems it was.

Gus

With the hammer down without a nippled breach to arrest it or a stop on the hammer and lock plate it will travel excessively but I fail to see how that would have any relation to a heavy trigger pull.
A photograph of a cocked lock would of been helpful.

 

[Artificer]

With the hammer down without a nippled breach to arrest it or a stop on the hammer and lock plate it will travel excessively but I fail to see how that would have any relation to a heavy trigger pull.
A photograph of a cocked lock would of been helpful.

When the mainspring goes down to far into the mortise, it JAMS up on the wood and doesn't allow free movement of the tumbler, which means the trigger pull is much harder to pull until the sear clears the tumbler.

Gus