Veteran Arms opinions

[toot]

to each his own. if you have no use for one just don't buy it. end of story. if you did buy one and had a failure then you can boost about it. other wise you have no first hand knowledge of the INDIAN GUNS. jmho.

 

[toot]

Columbus, I rely like the lines of the pistol! KUDDOS to you!hope you got a real deal on it? go and enjoy it. have fun.

 

[spudnut]

I hade a 1717, and a cookson doglock, bores ate both mirror smooth. They did have to lighten the trigger pull , both spark great

 

[toot]

spudnut, I guess not every one doesn't POUPOU them. I also have an INDIAN MFG. , CHARLEVILLE, BROWN BESS, MATCH LOCK, 20 GAUGE FLINT LOCK DBL. SXS, 20 GAUGE DBL. SXS. FLINTLOCK PISTOL, ENFIELD PERCUSSION MUSKET, ETC. and several more, you get the picture, and have had not one hiccup with any one of them. bough all of them new.

 

[FlinterNick]

to each his own. if you have no use for one just don't buy it. end of story. if you did buy one and had a failure then you can boost about it. other wise you have no first hand knowledge of the INDIAN GUNS. jmho.

First hand knowledge is key. Having worked on several Indian guns, I can vouch that they’re really hit or miss, I’ve seen some great ones and many bad ones.

Aesthetically I think most of them just don’t look right, they’re either way oversized in the barrel and or stock.

But if you want a high quality rifle or rifled musket... you’ll never get it with an Indian made gun.

 

[toot]

a lot of it has to do with the purse. if you want real quality, then go with a bench made one.if you just want to test the H2O, try a less expensive one.I agree the use of teak is a very heavy/dense wood. but that is the nature of the beast.

 

[ugly old guy]

Veterans Arms is a good company to deal with. As far as the guns, you get what you pay for.

I bought a French Infantry musket and was pleased with the gun for the most part. the lock worked very well and the gun shot as good as any smoothbore I ever shot. I test shot it by tying it to a tire and loading a tripple powder load and a double load of shot. Barrel measured the same and no damage any where.

So you Proof Tested it.
(Triple powder and double shot/ball is the "international standard" proof load for black powder arms.)

Question. Do you proof test all the muzzleloaders you acquire, or just the "inexpensive" ones?

Question: Have you ever had one fail?

I ask because every barrel sold in the USA (and most other countries) be it muzzleloader or cartridge, has to be proofed by a recognized proof house.

I have no problem with your proofing your barrels should you wish to do so.

 

[ugly old guy]

Reading through the replies I see they don't have a touch hole drilled.
This regulates/delegates them to "non-firing replica wall hangers, never intended to be fired." status
Thus it is not surprising that the locks are unreliable.

If you want a shooter, get something else. is my opinion.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I ask because every barrel sold in the USA (and most other countries) be it muzzleloader or cartridge, has to be proofed by a recognized proof house.

Actually no...,
There is no proofing house in the United States, nor in Canada, nor Mexico. There is no law requiring barrels sold in the United States nor Canada that requires the barrels to be proofed. Now some manufacturers such as Winchester do their own tests, because they want to, and they call in "winproof"...but IF you sent a Winchester rifle to England, it would have to go through a proofing test there as manufacturer testing is not accepted in proofing house nations. They do accept each other's proof testing.

In fact, although the pressure standards and methods for proofing for modern, smokeless powder cartridges are standardized between the proofing houses that exist...,There is no set standard for black powder proofing, even at the proofing houses themselves.

The standard for black powder proofing is arbitrarily set by each proofing house and it's up to that house if the barrel passes. That's why I wrote that the folks that have had theirs done in England and Germany had tests that exceeded the Italian proofing test. In the countries that have proofing houses, they normally require that IF you have a black powder rifle, gun, or handgun that could fire without further physical modification..., it's illegal to possess without having paid the fee and personally having the piece proofed.
The nations with such houses are only 14 worldwide, and they are:
Austria
Belgium
Chile
Czech Republic
Finland
France
Germany
Hungary
Italy
Russia
Slovakia
Spain
United Arab Emirates
United Kingdom

LD

 

[Pete G]

I really don't like the idea of intentionally exposing a gun to an overload, especially one of questionable quality. What may have been fine before could be made unsafe afterwards.

 

[hailcaesar]

I am looking for my first flintlock rifle. I think I will pass on the indian made ones because I really don't know enough about flintlocks to take the chance on an Indian made one.

 

[RAEDWALD]

Reading through the replies I see they don't have a touch hole drilled.
This regulates/delegates them to "non-firing replica wall hangers, never intended to be fired." status

I refer you to my earlier post 26 wherein I explained why the touch hole is not drilled and that they are intended to be fired.

 

[FlinterNick]

I refer you to my earlier post 26 wherein I explained why the touch hole is not drilled and that they are intended to be fired.

There are few reasons why the touch holes are not drilled, one is so they can ship them around regulations, especially the west coast states.

Secondly, almost all black powder firearms come to the USA as kits, whether its pedersoli or another manufacture. The distributors assemble them, drill the touch holes and then market them for sale.

 

[Black Jack]

Secondly, almost all black powder firearms come to the USA as kits, whether its pedersoli or another manufacture. The distributors assemble them, drill the touch holes and then market them for sale.

This is not accurate. Firearms made by manufacturers like Pedersoli, Lyman (Investarms), Traditions (Ardesa) come in to the country as finished products.

 

[FlinterNick]

This is not accurate. Firearms made by manufacturers like Pedersoli, Lyman (Investarms), Traditions (Ardesa) come in to the country as finished products.

According to Dixie Gun Works, they’re military muskets come in as kits and they finish some and sell some as kits for builders.

Navy Arms practiced the same with the miruko manufactured guns.

As I said , almost all of the guns come here as kits, (but not all of them do) even Loyalist arms receives their guns in kit form.

 

[Black Jack]

According to Dixie Gun Works, they’re military muskets come in as kits and they finish some and sell some as kits for builders.

Navy Arms practiced the same with the miruko manufactured guns.

As I said , almost all of the guns come here as kits, (but not all of them do) even Loyalist arms receives their guns in kit form.

I'm sure that there may be some historical examples like Navy Arms and Miroku.

As I said, the firearms made by manufacturers like Pedersoli, Lyman (Investarms), Traditions (Ardesa) come in to the country as finished products. This category would also include most military muskets sold by Dixie as they are Pedersoli products.

Veteran Arms is not a major manufacturer so that is probably the case.

 

[Zonie]

I agree. The guns sold in America that were made by major companies like Pedersoli are finished at the factory. The people who import them (including Lyman) aren't set up to machine things like flame channels, nipple threads etc. In fact, the flame channels on many of these muzzleloaders can't be machined without pulling the breech plug.

The muzzleloaders made in India don't have a vent hole drilled because India has very strict laws about exporting working firearms.
By not drilling the vent holes, the Indian gun builders can get around these laws because the guns are not capable of being fired. (At least while they are still in India and someone finishes the gun by drilling the touch hole.)

 

[Columbus]

I hade a 1717, and a cookson doglock, bores ate both mirror smooth. They did have to lighten the trigger pull , both spark great

Where did you get the Cookson? Would love to have one.

 

[FlinterNick]

I'm sure that there may be some historical examples like Navy Arms and Miroku.

As I said, the firearms made by manufacturers like Pedersoli, Lyman (Investarms), Traditions (Ardesa) come in to the country as finished products. This category would also include most military muskets sold by Dixie as they are Pedersoli products.

Veteran Arms is not a major manufacturer so that is probably the case.

I’m referring mostly to the military reproduction firearms, not the modern day muzzle loaders by Traditions and CVA.

According to Dixie gun works’ website, most of their military reproductions are in kit form while a good majority of them are not. It seems the practice of kit building has become less attractive for buyers.

I only buy my guns in kit form from the Rifle Shoppe, I haven’t purchased a factory made gun since 2001 and it was a miruko made Charleville in Kit form sold by Navy Arms Inc. They had the vent holes drilled unless you requested them not to.

I’ve spoke with the owner operator of Loyalist Arms, they work their guns from a reassembled kit for Defarbing and more accurate pattern that they wish to sell.

 

[Gene L]

Can you tell me how guns in the US are proofed, any muzzleloader made here?

MLs or other guns are not proved. Never have been. That is to say the US doesn't have a proof house (that I know of) but are tested to proof standards.