Wads in Pietta 1858

[Mike in FL]

A really dumb question. I have a new Pietta newmodel army 1958 coming. Been studying everything I can find about loading and shooting. I have always liked a lubed wad between poiwder and ball. From the front of the cylunder you would just see the ball unless you applied lube over the ball, for chain fire elimination and to soften residue. Here's the question: what if i used a lubed wad over the powder AND over the ball? Extra expense, but I don't care. Would that second wad cause anything bad?
I mean some folks use the wad and grease. Is their an advantage or disadvantage to that over ball wad?
Years ago I had a ROA. Loaded it with 3f, ball, cream of wheat to fill the cylinder, then a wonderwad that fit almost flush with the front of the cylinder. Never had a problem. But maybe the Piettaa is a different matter.
Responses much appreciated. Mike

 

[Mike in FL]

I didn't mean 1958. 1758.

 

[Pete453]

Mike, no offense, but you're overthinking it. A ⅛" wool felt wad with good lube between the powder and ball is all you need. I've been using beeswax and deer tallow with a splash of olive oil to soften it up a bit, and having great results. Here's a pic of my 1860 barrel after 24 shots with 30 and 35 grs 3f Goex, during July heat. I hope this is of help to you.

 

[TDM]

How about 1858. If you choose to add the 2nd wad on top of the ball no harm will come from it. I don’t personally don’t see a benefit and unless you add some extra lube to them the recoil might knock one off. But won’t hurt a thing and it might do well. Try it with and without and see how it shoots.

 

[Rich44]

My thoughts are upon recoil a wad might jump forward and jam against the cone. I also think powder, wad, ball is just fine.

 

[Crow Choker]

Overkill!!! A good lubed wad under a tight ball is all you need for protection from any chain fire and good lubing of the bore. I've shot all day and had a fairly clean bore after many rounds. Ox-Yoke Wads are good, but I soak a bit of extra lube into them. Also bought Duro-Felt and punched my own wads with a punch outa my leather working tools, cheapest route. Old flet hats will work if of the proper thickness.

The real chain fire culprit is ill and not tight fitting caps. Make sure you fit your caps to fit the nipples. I've found after 51 years of cap and ball shooting that Remington #10's fit the majority if not 99% of all nipples, both factory and after market. 10's have the proper ID to fit over the top of the nipple and the longest skirt of any to fit over the tapered nipples. CCI and Rem #11's aren't bad, but don't have as long of a skirt as Rem 10's. The Rem 10's really fit well and tight. Stay away from CCI #10's, smallest ID and shortest skirt on the market. I learned the hard way from them in buying 5 tins of em way back way back. I've heard they will fit on some of the small Italian 31 caliber Colts and such.

 

[TDM]

Actually no wad is necessary. You can seat the ball on the powder and shoot just fine. All other techniques are personal preference. There is no right or wrong, it’s only what your experience leads you to.

 

[Crow Choker]

Actually no wad is necessary. You can seat the ball on the powder and shoot just fine. All other techniques are personal preference. There is no right or wrong, it’s only what your experience leads you to.

That's true, but the wads are effective lube/cleaners and give a bit of security to Murphy's Law. Tight caps best insurance for no chain fires as long as the balls are tight.

 

[TDM]

That's true, but the wads are effective lube/cleaners and give a bit of security to Murphy's Law. Tight caps best insurance for no chain fires as long as the balls are tight.

A little lube over the top of the balls does the same thing. Not arguing the point, but new shooters need to understand that there are multiple ways to load and shoot these revolvers. There is no one way.

 

[Crow Choker]

A little lube over the top of the balls does the same thing. Not arguing the point, but new shooters need to understand that there are multiple ways to load and shoot these revolvers. There is no one way.

That's true but greasing over the top of the balls is a messy affair, one I don't miss. If I had been introduced to using wads years before I started using them, I'd gone that route. Greasing the balls and then shooting after the first and or second shot, melts grease, spraying it all over the gun from the cylinder forward. Then ya get it all over your hands, which greases everything else ya touch. A grease rag hung from my belt back in those days as a wiper. I tried a variety of grease, looking for that one that stayed put, never found it. My bore stays cleaner now using lubed felt wads than it ever did back in the grease years. But, the old saying, "To each his own" applies here.

 

[nkbj]

Mike, the blast wave at the front of the cylinder is pretty fierce and wads might not stay put.
But, that said, neither a lube wad under the ball or lube on top are a waste. Both serve good purposes if the ingredients are correctly proportioned.
Bullets with shallow hollow bases with lube in them seated on top of a punched out circle of plastic coated freezer paper is another good way to get there.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

Chain fires come from the back, not the front. They are cause by loose or missing caps. You can shoot with out wads, they did in the old days. When I started shooting C&B guns they hadn't even invented wads you could buy.
Lube smeared across the cylinder face is just for lube, nothing to do with chain fires. Fire is not going to get past a proper fitting ball.
All of that being said, wads or no wads, you'll have to experiment with a large variety of combinations to see what your most accurate load is.

 

[Mike in FL]

Wow! 2 handfuls of good info. I do appreciate it.

 

[TDM]

That's true but greasing over the top of the balls is a messy affair, one I don't miss. If I had been introduced to using wads years before I started using them, I'd gone that route. Greasing the balls and then shooting after the first and or second shot, melts grease, spraying it all over the gun from the cylinder forward. Then ya get it all over your hands, which greases everything else ya touch. A grease rag hung from my belt back in those days as a wiper. I tried a variety of grease, looking for that one that stayed put, never found it. My bore stays cleaner now using lubed felt wads than it ever did back in the grease years. But, the old saying, "To each his own" applies here.

I use lubed OP wads in my revolvers too. Mainly I was just opining.

 

[Jappo]

Actually no wad is necessary. You can seat the ball on the powder and shoot just fine. All other techniques are personal preference. There is no right or wrong, it’s only what your experience leads you to.

I don’t use wads or anything over the ball. No problem cleaning or chainfire. If cylinder gets hard to turn after a few shots, I just spit in it. A good lube/wax on cylinder arbor does wonders. Especially on the Walker.

 

[TDM]

I don’t use wads or anything over the ball. No problem cleaning or chainfire. If cylinder gets hard to turn after a few shots, I just spit in it. A good lube/wax on cylinder arbor does wonders. Especially on the Walker.

Yep, there’s as many successful ways as there are shooters.

 

[smoothshooter]

A really dumb question. I have a new Pietta newmodel army 1958 coming. Been studying everything I can find about loading and shooting. I have always liked a lubed wad between poiwder and ball. From the front of the cylunder you would just see the ball unless you applied lube over the ball, for chain fire elimination and to soften residue. Here's the question: what if i used a lubed wad over the powder AND over the ball? Extra expense, but I don't care. Would that second wad cause anything bad?
I mean some folks use the wad and grease. Is their an advantage or disadvantage to that over ball wad?
Years ago I had a ROA. Loaded it with 3f, ball, cream of wheat to fill the cylinder, then a wonderwad that fit almost flush with the front of the cylinder. Never had a problem. But maybe the Piettaa is a different matter.
Responses much appreciated. Mike

The wad over the ball is unnecessary, and one adjacent to the one being fired could dislodge and interfere with cylinder rotation for the next shot.
If the balls are of a proper diameter, a chain-fire coming in from the front even with no wads or grease over a loaded ball will not happen. Chain-fires are caused from flame jumping from one nipple to the next when caps do not fit properly.
Besides, a chain-fire is not a catastrophic event.
There is no reason to buy wads. It is so easy to make your own, and you can save big $$$.

 

[jmull4609]

Chain fires come from the back, not the front. They are cause by loose or missing caps. You can shoot with out wads, they did in the old days. When I started shooting C&B guns they hadn't even invented wads you could buy.
Lube smeared across the cylinder face is just for lube, nothing to do with chain fires. Fire is not going to get past a proper fitting ball.
All of that being said, wads or no wads, you'll have to experiment with a large variety of combinations to see what your most accurate load is.

Controversial at best. Certainly not proven.
That being said, an extra wad isn't needed.

 

[Jaegermeister]

I’m guessing my Eras Gone conical bullets would be fine with just a felt wad over the powder. My paper cartridges are a kind of a pain in the rear and I have always dipped the paper cartridge bullets in melted SPG. I want to try just loose powder, felt wad and bullet.

 

[Stantheman86]

I just put a finger dab of Crisco or Tallow over the ball

It's easy and it keeps the gun running, and the bore from caking up