Just read that the 1847 Walker .44 had a problem when a large charge was used that caused the loading lever to drop and jam the gun. A full charge sometimes caused the thin metal to explode because of the large fill it could accept. The Walker Dragoon revisions fixed these problems right, but which Dragoon to choose and were they really improved? Cimarron makes the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Dragoon and Whitneyville. The charge was reduced from my understanding, and the lever didn't drop and jam. Looking for power and dependability.
Walker .44 and Dragoon Revisions
- Thread starter Erik550c
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Yes, the lever on the Walker and the Whitneyville Walker often drops when the gun fires.
The Italian reproductions carry this tradition on very accurately.
This can be improved by slightly modifying the spring that serves as the ramming lever catch.
The original cylinders had a habit of exploding when the gun was fired.
Initially, this was blamed on the user loading the conical bullet backwards (pointed end first into the chamber) but later, people tended to blame it on the Whitney company (who made the Walkers) for using poor quality steel.
The dragoons addressed this problem by reducing the powder charge and by Colt making them and proofing each cylinder.
One of the first things addressed by the Dragoon pistol was to redesign the loading lever catch.
Each model used a catch that was improved over the catch used on the proceeding model.
The cylinder stop notches were changed with each model.
Starting with a simple machined elongated hole on the
Walker the notch evolved into the slot with a machined ramp shape that was used on all subsequent Colt pistols.
The Italian reproductions carry this tradition on very accurately.
This can be improved by slightly modifying the spring that serves as the ramming lever catch.
The original cylinders had a habit of exploding when the gun was fired.
Initially, this was blamed on the user loading the conical bullet backwards (pointed end first into the chamber) but later, people tended to blame it on the Whitney company (who made the Walkers) for using poor quality steel.
The dragoons addressed this problem by reducing the powder charge and by Colt making them and proofing each cylinder.
One of the first things addressed by the Dragoon pistol was to redesign the loading lever catch.
Each model used a catch that was improved over the catch used on the proceeding model.
The cylinder stop notches were changed with each model.
Starting with a simple machined elongated hole on the
Walker the notch evolved into the slot with a machined ramp shape that was used on all subsequent Colt pistols.
Most Walkers, or at least a very large percentage failed in service. Burst barrels or cylinders. This was one reason the Dragoon cyl was shortened. The catch on the Walker stunk so this was changed. The Walker was also far too heavy.Erik550c said:
Dan
If you're set on a giant hog leg, get yourself a Super Walker by Kaido Ojamma. It has a dragoon style loading lever and a picatinny rail for mounting a sight among other improvements.
My ASM Walker has NEVER dropped its loading lever. We shoot it with 50 grains of 2F powder and round ball only as its just for plinking. The holster pistols are for hunting.
My ASM Walker has NEVER dropped its loading lever. We shoot it with 50 grains of 2F powder and round ball only as its just for plinking. The holster pistols are for hunting.
Erik550c said: "I don't want a gun that is prone to fail. Can the 3rd Dragoon be used frequently with reasonable safety?"
Just to be clear; the Walkers that failed were the original ones made in the 1800's.
Modern replica Walkers and Dragoons are safe to shoot. Cimarron firearms are very well made.
Just to be clear; the Walkers that failed were the original ones made in the 1800's.
Modern replica Walkers and Dragoons are safe to shoot. Cimarron firearms are very well made.
rodwha
58 Cal.
A fellow who was following my threads on various custom conicals wanted some to try. He used a very heavy one designed specifically for my ROA since it can certainly handle higher pressures than the repros. It burst his ASM Walker with 40 grns of Pyrodex P. This 285 grn WFN is short for its weight.
I asked about this on many forums and many believe it to be excessive pressures that the cylinder couldn't handle, and many believed it may be due to the quality of the ASM products that had a reputation for either being very good or having issues.
Be careful of what you feed it.
I asked about this on many forums and many believe it to be excessive pressures that the cylinder couldn't handle, and many believed it may be due to the quality of the ASM products that had a reputation for either being very good or having issues.
Be careful of what you feed it.
rodwha
58 Cal.
There's a fellow who hunts with a group of guys all armed with cap and ball pistols. His friends mostly use a Colt Army, Remington NMA, or ROA with 3F Triple 7/Swiss/Olde Eynsford powders and a Kaido 240 or 255 grn conical (Lee 255 grn Colt bullet). He uses a Walker with 2F Triple 7 and a ball saying that within 25 yds it's just far more devastating, though beyond that he'd likely use the conical.
Robert an saa fan said:
Correct. When I said "failed in service" I meant MILITARY service. Modern Walkers are not used by the military and as such will not fail in "service" or any other use. The original Walker had too much powder capacity for the quality of iron used. Which apparently was not all that good.
Also it was found that the Walker would "throw" a ball farther than a Mississippi rifle" or so I have read.
Unless mounted on a horse I do not consider the Walker or the Dragoons a viable option. The "Dragoon" was called that for a reason. The NAVY was a belt pistol as was the later Army 44 revolver on a Navy frame.
Dan
wolfundrabe
32 Cal.
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The Walker would be awful big for a daily carry piece of course, but if you want a hand cannon for some fun at the range then you need a Walker Repro.
I carry a 3rd mod Dragoon and a London Navy Colt in a cross draw rig for Western Action. I put a rubber band around the muzzle to keep the lever in place. I only use a 28 grain charge of fffg. The Dragoon can be carried on the belt, but is heavy, better in a pommel holster on the front of your saddle. I have fiddled about with the catch to improve it with limited success. What have any of you chaps done with success, especially using full service charges?
cheers
Heelerau
cheers
Heelerau
AZbpBurner
54 Cal.
While original Walker barrel and frame were steel, the cylinders were wrought iron (not sure why) but this was the contributing factor in the Walker failures. I read that an arms maker for the South overcame this problem by heating and twisting a wrought iron billet so the metal grain structure was not linear to the bored chambers, and not as subject to fracturing along straight line grain.Erik550c said:
Integrity and reliability in the replicas today isn't a factor, since the cylinders and all major components are modern steel.
I have a 2nd Model Dragoon with the squared triggerguard. Once I was tired of blasting away with maximum loads (putting FEAR into the hearts of all the .44 mag shooters) I found the best accuracy is with 23 gr 3F - same accurate load as all my .44 revolvers, whether Colt, Remington or ROA.
Don't rely on Cimarron to ship you a hand-picked, inspected and lovingly tuned 1858 Uberti, unless you're actually paying extra for them to do so. For the most part, they're an importer the same as Taylors, Cabelas and a lot of other on-line retailers. They do have a cool and informative website, and little of their content is bluster and hucksterism. Rumor and speculation is that they hand pick and choose their inventory from Uberti, and I'd be skeptical of these claims, unless Texas Jack has told you so himself.
Buy by price (include shipping cost and tax, or not) and consider Midway, Midsouth, Cabelas, Jedediah Starr and other on-line retailers. They all sell the same Uberti, and none of them actually open up the factory package and twiddle or inspect any of them.
Uberti makes, or did, several grades of guns. If the distributor wants cheap they get the less refined models. Ordering direct from Uberti is no protection from getting a "second" or maybe third.
If Cimarron pays for better guns they get better guns in general. Buying an Italian repro revolver (cartridge or otherwise) and buying the cheapest is, based on working on various SA revolvers professionally some years back, a HUGE mistake. I certainly would not buy one from Cabelas and REALLY dislike buying one I cannot personally examine. Some "second gen" Colt C&Bs are pretty poorly done but not many. I once saw a "Colt" 1860 Army in a gun store that the frame hand never been polished past about 50 grit.
If I had to order one, based on the ones I see on display I would go with Cimarron. But my trust level of all of them is low (I have this disgusting perfectionist streak where guns are concerned). Back in the late 70s Western Arms was good for Uberti revolvers and trustworthy. But they are long gone...
Dan
If Cimarron pays for better guns they get better guns in general. Buying an Italian repro revolver (cartridge or otherwise) and buying the cheapest is, based on working on various SA revolvers professionally some years back, a HUGE mistake. I certainly would not buy one from Cabelas and REALLY dislike buying one I cannot personally examine. Some "second gen" Colt C&Bs are pretty poorly done but not many. I once saw a "Colt" 1860 Army in a gun store that the frame hand never been polished past about 50 grit.
If I had to order one, based on the ones I see on display I would go with Cimarron. But my trust level of all of them is low (I have this disgusting perfectionist streak where guns are concerned). Back in the late 70s Western Arms was good for Uberti revolvers and trustworthy. But they are long gone...
Dan
Brokenlaig
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I think overall the quality of Percussion revolver replicas have really stepped up the last 6 or eight years. Uberti has been bought by Beretta, and although expensive, their revolvers are of uniformly high quality.
Pietta invested in an all CNC manufacturing environment and it shows. More uniform parts, better quality control and a commitment to turning out quality items has borne fruit. Although not as finely fitted and finished as the Uberti, the Pietta is functional out of the box.
None of the general production guns are perfect. Just like any other revolver, including modern ones, they can benefit from action tuning and other touches. But truly the quality has improved.
And I've seen numerous people on this and other forums buy perfectly functional, trouble free revolvers from Cabelas or Midway or wherever. Cabela's sells a BUNCH of BP revolvers compared to other distributors. They probably buy them by the pallet. Do they go through each one looking for trouble spots? No. But, if there was a huge problem with them it would be showing up on the forums, but I just don't see it. The biggest flaws now are design problems like grip shape on the 1851.
Pietta invested in an all CNC manufacturing environment and it shows. More uniform parts, better quality control and a commitment to turning out quality items has borne fruit. Although not as finely fitted and finished as the Uberti, the Pietta is functional out of the box.
None of the general production guns are perfect. Just like any other revolver, including modern ones, they can benefit from action tuning and other touches. But truly the quality has improved.
And I've seen numerous people on this and other forums buy perfectly functional, trouble free revolvers from Cabelas or Midway or wherever. Cabela's sells a BUNCH of BP revolvers compared to other distributors. They probably buy them by the pallet. Do they go through each one looking for trouble spots? No. But, if there was a huge problem with them it would be showing up on the forums, but I just don't see it. The biggest flaws now are design problems like grip shape on the 1851.
Millermpls
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Both Cabelas and MidwayUSA are generous with returns if you have a problem. Just try 'em ou right away.
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I bought an Uberti Whitneyville Dragoon from Cabelas. It is a beautiful and finely finished revolver that even has the timing right, so that after about 72 rounds it still had no cylinder ring or early strikes from the bolt on the cylinder. I do use a tiny rubber band on the loading lever because it drops on all loads over 30 grains of 3F. It's very pleasant to shoot with 49 grains under a round ball and with 40 grains under a Lee 220 grain conical.
