Walker colt, need some help

[TFoley]

Both of my 2nd generation Walkers came with hardened wedges as did my Uberti. The 2nd generation Colts were built here using rough forgings from Uberti--Uberti had no other part in building them. Full loads do not harm either my Colts or my Uberti.

Cheap really doesn't refer to price but to build quality and I believe that I specifically excluded Uberti from that category. There were a few makers who turned out some pretty sad stuff back in the early days.

$1500 for a Uberti and $50.00 a pound for powder are outrageous prices, tac. Does that include VAT or is that pre tax? Dan

Yes, they are outrageous prices, but we are used to outrageous prices here, indeed, it is the general rule that stuff from the USA, even though it may have originated in Europe, like the Uberti bits used to make my 'Colt' Walker, cost at least the same amount of pounds as they do dollars, plus a bit for the Excise man, of course.

VAT [sales tax] here in yUK at that time was 17.5%. It is not added on at the point of sale, but is included in the marked price. It has recently gone down to 'only' 15%, except on gasoline, of course, which is now almost $8 a gallon.

tac

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

That is my opinion, 60 gr. loads with 3f will damage the Uberti Walker in a short length of time. I used 40 gr. loads of 2f and got more bang than most of the counters wanted to witness.In a confined space it was a real blaster. This Fall I plan to bring them back into the cowboy matches so the younger folks can see what they missed. There is no mistaking the thunder of the Walker.

Hi Capt.!

As far as my Walker goes, I've had it for several years, and only tried to "fill-er-up" twice. My current match-winning load is 50 grains of Goex 3F, a pre-lubed wonder-wad, and a .454 Hornady ball. I've tried 55 grains plus the wad, and it just makes it foul faster, although the balls just clear the chamber mouths. The additional 5 grains doesn't aid in accuracy, but will give you a slightly louder BANG! The ONLY way that I could ever get 60 grains into her is to go without the wad, but since I use a holster and don't want a greasy mess inside the leather, I opt to use the wads.

If you're using a 40 grain charge and think that that's loud, well, 50 gives a little bigger BANG! Do you use cornmeal or some other substance to get the balls closer to the chamber mouths while using only 40 grains?

Compared to other wheelguns of the era, the Walker sure does get your attention at the firing line. When bystanders ask what I put in her, I tell them that I use a "50 grain rifle charge" :haha: and that helps them to understand the long range capability of this magnificent hand gun . 100 yard gongs are sure fun to hit with the big wheelgun :shocked2:

Continued success with your hand cannon :thumbsup: .

Dave

 

[mykeal]

I've just come across this thread or I would have posted much earlier.

I only own two Walkers, a Uberti and an ASM. I can only speak for my guns - I'm not sure how other folks can speak for an entire population of one brand of guns when they only have one example. I don't have soft wedges in either gun (perhaps they were replaced by some other owner) and the cylinder stop notches aren't 'peened' despite having been well used over the years. I do enjoy shooting the gun, so they tend to get used. The Uberti is a much nicer gun than the ASM - the chamber diameters are much closer to the groove diameters on the Uberti and so it's quite a bit more accurate.

My load in either gun is 50 gr fffg real black powder with a lubed felt overpowder wad and a 143 gr .457 rb. I have certainly fired both guns with 60 gr of fffg real black an several occasions, and while it's quite satisfying it's not my normal mode of shooting as I find the load pretty inaccurate.

The fellow who wants to stay away from the Uberti Walker will have a bit of a hard time; Peitta doesn't make a Walker and ASM has been out of business for a while. If you do get an ASM check the chamber diameters first thing.

As for vigorous cocking being the cause of peening the cylinder stop notches, I don't see how that could happen. On my guns the bolt drops out of the notch when you draw the hammer back, so the speed or force used in that motion wouldn't seem to cause the bolt to impact the surface any harder. As far as the bolt returning to the notch when the hammer reaches full cock, that's controlled by the tension in the trigger/bolt spring when the bolt leg disengages from the cam on the hammer; since the bolt is not being driven by the hammer at that point I fail to see how faster or stronger hammer motion has any greater effect on the bolt impacting the cylinder at that point either.

 

[Capt Augustus]

The cylinder preening was not caused by the speed of the bolt, but the speed and weight of the turning cylinder. This took place after about 5 years of use shooting two handed in cowboy matches, up to 2 matches a month, each pistol firing 30 rounds. The preening took place on the side of the notch that would hit the bolt upon stopping. Many problems show up on single action pistols used with two hand shooting, that wouldn't happen if they were fired sinngle handed as designed. Some have problems locking up because of overtravel. Mostly it's a timing thing.

As far as loads, I used 40 grains of 2f and a wad with a .457 ball. I stayed at 40 to help keep the lever up as it was a distraction.

 

[mykeal]

The cylinder preening was not caused by the speed of the bolt, but the speed and weight of the turning cylinder...The preening took place on the side of the notch that would hit the bolt upon stopping...Mostly it's a timing thing.

I can see that happening. Thanks.

 

[Maverick3855]

I've just come across this thread or I would have posted much earlier.


The fellow who wants to stay away from the Uberti Walker will have a bit of a hard time; Peitta doesn't make a Walker and ASM has been out of business for a while. If you do get an ASM check the chamber diameters first thing.

.

That wuld be me.
I actually found a NOS/NIB ASM since my original posting here from a gun shop in Michigan for $280. New Unfired.
I'm still waiting for delivery.
I find Piettas used to have slightly undersized chambers as well and I use reamers on both the 44's and 36's to open up the chamber mouths a bit on all my Cap'n Ball revolvers.
It makes a big difference in accuracy.
My other Walker is a Richland arms and may be made by ASM as well. I don't know as the barrel has the actual Colt address and markings and it is marked in tiny writing "Richland Arms" under the loading lever.
I can find no other matkings on it.
Everyone I have showed it to thinks it's an actual Colt because of the barrel markings on top and the Richland Arms stamp is so small they always miss it.
I'm not sure how they got away with stamping them with the actual Colt markings.

 

[mukluk]

I figure people could use a picture to help visualize the latch modification...

 

[mykeal]

I'm not sure how they got away with stamping them with the actual Colt markings.

They didn't. ASM had made a bunch of rough parts for sale to Colt to support the 2nd Generation program, but Colt went to Uberti instead. ASM then applied to Colt for permission to assemble and sell the guns they had parts for. Unfortunately they didn't wait for Colt to say OK. Colt sued them to stop; I believe it was settled out of court with ASM agreeing to stop production. Several (amount unknown) had already been delivered and can still be found; ASM was not required to get them back.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

WOW--I never knew that!

Thanks for the info mykeal!

Dave

 

[Mike Brooks]

I'm not sure how they got away with stamping them with the actual Colt markings.

They didn't. ASM had made a bunch of rough parts for sale to Colt to support the 2nd Generation program, but Colt went to Uberti instead. ASM then applied to Colt for permission to assemble and sell the guns they had parts for. Unfortunately they didn't wait for Colt to say OK. Colt sued them to stop; I believe it was settled out of court with ASM agreeing to stop production. Several (amount unknown) had already been delivered and can still be found; ASM was not required to get them back.

What years do you suppose those were made? I'll have to look for some of those.

 

[madcratebuilder]

I'm not sure how they got away with stamping them with the actual Colt markings.

They didn't. ASM had made a bunch of rough parts for sale to Colt to support the 2nd Generation program, but Colt went to Uberti instead. ASM then applied to Colt for permission to assemble and sell the guns they had parts for. Unfortunately they didn't wait for Colt to say OK. Colt sued them to stop; I believe it was settled out of court with ASM agreeing to stop production. Several (amount unknown) had already been delivered and can still be found; ASM was not required to get them back.

mykeal is absolutely correct on this. Unfortunately there is a lot of miss information about the Colt marked ASM's. IMHO these ASM's would be very desirable.

My comments on bent wedges and loose arbors. IMHO, most of these problems are caused by incorrectly fit barrel and arbor. The arbor MUST bottom out in the barrel lug just as the bottom of the lug touches the frame. If you can close up the barrel gap by pushing the wedge in further then the arbor is to short.

I'm sure some wedges get a poor heat treat or miss it entirely and some arbors may get a bad fit to the recoil shield but this is not the norm. Arbors get shot loose from a poor fit at the barrel lug. The first thing I do to a open top is correct the arbor fit and I don't have problems with them.

As far as loads for the Walker, Colt specifications are 35 to 55grs (50 recommended) of FFFg with either a round ball or conical bullet. The originals had cylinder failure because of the metals of the time period did not have the needed strength. Colt did not blue the cylinders on the originals because he thought it may cause a weakening of the steel. They had made some improvement in the steel for the Dragoons, plus they made the chambers smaller and reduced to load spec to 35-40 grs.

What years do you suppose those were made? I'll have to look for some of those.

I think 1968-69, as Colt started production in 1970 of the first C series black powder revolvers.

 

[TFoley]

I'm not sure how they got away with stamping them with the actual Colt markings.

They didn't. ASM had made a bunch of rough parts for sale to Colt to support the 2nd Generation program, but Colt went to Uberti instead. ASM then applied to Colt for permission to assemble and sell the guns they had parts for. Unfortunately they didn't wait for Colt to say OK. Colt sued them to stop; I believe it was settled out of court with ASM agreeing to stop production. Several (amount unknown) had already been delivered and can still be found; ASM was not required to get them back.

mykeal is absolutely correct on this. Unfortunately there is a lot of miss information about the Colt marked ASM's. IMHO these ASM's would be very desirable.

My comments on bent wedges and loose arbors. IMHO, most of these problems are caused by incorrectly fit barrel and arbor. The arbor MUST bottom out in the barrel lug just as the bottom of the lug touches the frame. If you can close up the barrel gap by pushing the wedge in further then the arbor is to short.

I'm sure some wedges get a poor heat treat or miss it entirely and some arbors may get a bad fit to the recoil shield but this is not the norm. Arbors get shot loose from a poor fit at the barrel lug. The first thing I do to a open top is correct the arbor fit and I don't have problems with them.

As far as loads for the Walker, Colt specifications are 35 to 55grs (50 recommended) of FFFg with either a round ball or conical bullet. The originals had cylinder failure because of the metals of the time period did not have the needed strength. Colt did not blue the cylinders on the originals because he thought it may cause a weakening of the steel. They had made some improvement in the steel for the Dragoons, plus they made the chambers smaller and reduced to load spec to 35-40 grs.

What years do you suppose those were made? I'll have to look for some of those.

I think 1968-69, as Colt started production in 1970 of the first C series black powder revolvers.

All very interesting stuff, for which I, for one, am very grabious. :thumbsup:

AAMOI - my replica Colt Walker, still with it's black box outer cover, and optional fitted case with all accessories, has the serial number of 1816. :hmm:

Whenabouts was that made, if you can tell me. THAT had a soft wedge that bent like a banana the first time I fired it - and that's the reason why I joined up here in the fust place.

TIA

tac