• Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.

    We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.

    Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103

Walker or Dragoon ?

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Belt loops on pants were not invented until 1922 by Levi Straus. Suspenders were in vogue though.

I dont believe this is correct, meaning Levi Strauss starting putting them on their pants then, but did not invent them.

There are reports of belt loops being on baseball uniforms in 1857.

I myself like both belts and suspenders, they are not mutually exclusive, or an either-or proposition. Suspenders help hold up your pants without too tight of a belt, a belt helps keep your shirt tucked in and in order and gives a way to carry knives, tools, holsters and other things on the belt when a dedicated gunbelt isnt needed or desired.

Many older pants had adjustment cinch, but thats lacking in most common pants today. I wear Carhartts most often, I sew suspender buttons on them as well as on Levis sometimes. When the pants are worn out I cut the buttons off and move them to new pants. It takes about 20 minutes, and if done well lasts the life of the pants.
 
Last edited:
I dont believe this is correct, meaning Levi Strauss starting putting them on their pants then, but did not invent them.

There are reports of belt loops being on baseball uniforms in 1857.

I myself like both belts and suspenders, they are not mutually exclusive, or an either-or proposition. Suspenders help hold up your pants without too tight of a belt, a belt helps keep your shirt tucked in and in order and gives a way to carry knives, tools, holsters and other things on the belt when a dedicated gunbelt isnt needed or desired.

Many older pants had adjustment cinch, but thats lacking in most common pants today. I wear Carhartts most often, I sew suspender buttons on them as well as on Levis sometimes. When the pants are worn out I cut the buttons off and move them to new pants. It takes about 20 minutes, and if done well lasts the life of the pants.

Well you are correct too. Belt loops did not become common until after 1922. Before then it was rare or an oddity. All the references to it point to Levi Straus in 1922. Mens fashions change very slowly as compared to women’s fashions. Yes there have been mentions of belt loops on some baseball uniforms before but that seems to be more of an oddity at the time.

https://www.buttsandshoulders.com/introduction-belt-loops/
https://truewestmagazine.com/article/belt-loops/
 
Hello everyone. First thread on TMF. Been shooting black powder for over 40 years. Not so much anymore. But still think I will one day. Got a Walker and a 3rd Dragoon from Midway lately and they seem real nice. Remember the Walker loading lever being an issue (when loaded heavily) but with a nicer more manageable load not a problem. The Walker is the whole deal to me. Don’t get me wrong I like them all. But if the Walker blows your dress up, you might as well give in. (probably shouldn’t say that anymore) You will sooner or later anyway. These are my three Uberti’s. The Mrs says that three of an kind makes me a collector. I will remind her of this when number four shows up. Thank ya’ll.
BB14540A-B1CD-48DC-9B24-51EE341AA5C2.jpeg
42A7D081-4E9C-406C-AFA4-9512E4F650E4.jpeg
78970F62-795F-4AD7-8AD2-D60ACF0CC50B.jpeg
 
Pros vs. cons-

The Walker is very big: 4.9 pounds,15.5 inches long and a full cylinder will hold nearly 350 grains of powder. The loading lever will occasionally drop with heavy loads.
Dragoon is big, 4.2 pounds, 13.5 inches, full cylinder holds 300 grains. No cons with either, in my book!
Holy Smoke! How much powder? I use a max of 50 grains in my .52 Sharps rifle
 
Good shootin Wizard with yer Walker when ya get it going. Was gonna post this before ya got yer Walker, but others may wonder also so here goes. I have a Walker and three Dragoons, A WhitneyVille, 2nd and 3rd Model. 2nd model my favorite. Like the square back trigger, was also my first so partial to it. Have assort of other capper models and brands also.

1) Ball size: .454 vs .457. Tried both in my Walkers and Dragoons. No difference in accuracy in either model. The .457's are a 'B' to seat in most cases. .451" balls are too small, .454's shave a nice ring and are in tight. I use .454's in all of my 44 caliber Uberti and Pietta cappers. I always use a greased felt wad between powder and ball-excellent results over last 15-20 years. A 50 grain charge, plus felt wad, and a ball seats nice in a Walker. No time for fillers, unneeded extra step. No messy over the ball grease/concoctions which aren't real effective anyway. Been shooting cappers since 1972.

2) Powder: My Dragoons- while I can use more, I normally load around 40-42 grains of FFF (Goex). Have gone down to 35 or so but seems a bit under powered. Anything over 45 is overkill and results in unburned powder. Walker-Have tired the near 60 grains of FFF, but overpowered, ain't trying to knock down a horse or impress any one with shock and awe. Most loads are around 50 of FFF Goex, 45-47 works ok, but like the 50 grainer. Have tried FF a bit in the Dragoons, tried quite a little in the Walker but couldn't see much of an advantage. Most say FF will give a slower power/pressure curve building up, so a large dose in a Walker will supposedly tame everything down. Believe a coronagraph and other testing equipment might show different, but at the ranges and style of shooting I do I couldn't see any plus or difference. I'll save the FF for my 44 Colt metallic reloads in my 44 conversions.

3) 45D's posts on page 2 are spot on as is 'earlwb's. Reread them. Alot of other good advice. I like 'Bulls-eye's post reference the WhitneyVille or Transition Dragoon ie. "Being the best of both worlds." The Whit has the frame and barrel size and weight of the 1-2-3rd Models, but the grip frame and such of the Walker. I really like shooting mine, handles real nice. The WhitneyVille and 1st Model Dragoon have the oval bolt stops like the Walker, while the 2nd and 3rd have the rectangular bolt cuts like later model Colts. At one time I thought the oval cuts were and would be less in ability to lock up the large Walker and Dragoon cylinder. A real engineered minded and knowledgeable member over on the CAS forum a few years back showed the nonsense of this with CAD drawings and other details showing the oval cuts to be just as strong and effective. FWIW the Uberti repo WhitneyVille and 1st Model Dragoon doesn't have the V spring like the Walker of the originals, rather has the same leaf spring as the 2nd and 3rd Models. That's just the way Uberti makes em. Some say more reliable, others say not as smooth as a V spring. Works for me having the leaf spring.

**Also** Learn how to check the arbor length on your Uberti Walker/Dragoon (or any cap and ball revolver). There are a variety of ways to resolve. 45D a great smith does a great job ifin Ya can't do yourself or have no one to fix. Learn what it is and how to check. Most Colt Open Top style revolvers suffer some form of it. All but 3-4 of my 10 cappers and 4 conversions had bad fitting arbors. I've planned to do a permanent fix by means of adding a brass studded button on the end of the arbor then filing for fit. Others screw in a metal apparatus then adjust the screw for length and add sealant, so it'll not loosen. So far I've gotten by by checking the needed gap to make a solid arbor/frame contact and adding brass washers the same diameter as the arbor. I bought four thicknesses of brass washers at my local ACE Hardware and played around with the four sizes with each revolver to attain a solid lockup. I heavily grease between the shims and on the one that goes into the arbor hole. Helps em not to come out when taking the barrel off, but ya got to watch it just in case. Have it written down what each one takes. Not a permanent fix, but an effective one.

4) Ball rammer lever falling: Always a biggy with open top Colt percussions prior to the 1851 Model when they improved the latch system. On the Dragoons Uberti unless they've changed has never had a deep enough ledge on the barrel stud that engages the loading lever latch. My 2nd Model would drop the lever at least 2-3 times per 6 rounds. Powder puff loads were ok, but I didn't want any part of that. Read up on it and after slow filing, trial and error, I filed the barrel stud ledge deep enough to retain the lever at 40-42 grain charges. Take care doing this. A fellow forum member on CAS advised he put a stiffer spring in the channel that operates the lever latch and had success with that.

On Walkers being a different arrangement with no barrel stud/lever latch I've read of success by others in filing a small flat on the loading lever protrusion that hangs down from the barrel. Alot call it a spring. If ya look at it it appears to be a half moon affair. The flat needs to be on the top side of it (towards the barrel). A small flat filed at around the 12 o'clock to 2 o'clock area needs to be filed. I haven't done it yet, its on the 'been-gonna' list of gun tinkering. If ya don't understand it, really study how the lever locks in the lever void and how much needs to be taken off. Slow and easy is the key. File and try. I've heard of some who go into it like a beaver to a beech tree and it results in a lever needing hydraulic pressure to get it to detach.

So far I've gotten along with using a "O ring" around the barrel and lever. I spent 19 years as a heavy equipment operator and always kept a packet of O Rings in my possible bag while working in case some hydraulic O ring went "blewee". When I first got the Walker I did the tie a rag around, rubber bands, period correct leather thong, and a few other things to retain the lever. One day at work when replacing an O ring I thought, these would work great on that Walker. Gave em a try and have never looked back. Can't say as of now what size, but not hard to determine. Anyway, they come in variety of sizes and colors, but the black IMO work's best. Not as noticeable to me or others and best thing is the black doesn't detract while aiming like the white or pink or yellow ones. They do work. I'll try and find the ones I'm using and come back and edit this post as to the best size-not hard to determine though. If ya don't have any or have access, take yer Walker to your nearest friendly auto center or mechanic and try and buy. They do sell in packets and singularly. Go somewhere though where they know ya-walk into some store where they don't know ya and pull out a Walker and hard to say what will happen.😬

OK, have gotten windy and long. Hope this helps anyone with Walker/Dragoon thoughts/questions. Loading, ball size, powder, loading lever dropping. Some say these are to heavy of a hogleg to carry on a plinking walk. I've strapped one of each to my left and right side (balance each other out pretty good), alot of times a shoulder holster with some other six shooter, maybe a bandoleer of metallic ammo over shoulder, one around my waste, and a shootin bag and have walked the banks of one of the two nearby rivers on a afternoon plinking and making smoke. I'm in pretty good shape but no NFL bemouth type, although a 20 mile walk all day in the hot sun would be something! 🥵 Will admit if I'd step in a deep hole in the water I'd sink fast, but I stay away from them. 😅
 
Well the quest for a Walker has hit a snag.
When I placed my order at taylors, it was listed as in stock. I received my order confirmation, still said in stock. After a week with no shipping info, I called to check. Now they tell me it's not in stock and on backorder. So I canceled the order.

Disappointed, I past on a couple of good used ones for this new kit.

Let y,all know if I find another one.

Bill
 
That's a bummer Wizard. Have had that happen before when ordering online. Computer says in stock, but not so. Left and right hands are out of sync at times at some of those places. Is a kit your goal or would you take a factory finished? Unless you have heart set on a Walker and like it's heft and looks, the Dragoon models are mighty nice. As I mentioned my 2nd is my favorite, it's teachers pet of all my cappers. My 3rd is a Colt Signature Model.

Ifin ya like the grip and such of a Walker, like I posted before, the WhitneyVille feels like yer holding a Walker that's been on a crash diet, carries nicer also. Really like my Whitney. Had considered sending it to 45D (Goons Gunsmithing) for a Krist Konvertor make-over, but then found an almost new 3rd model Dragoon for sale on the CAS forum all worked over with Krist 45 Colt cylinder, less than 200 rds through it Have percussion cylinder, box and all papers too. Worked over by Gary Barnes (Hoof Hearted-CAS forum) another excellent open top Colt smith. Good luck on yer search-if I see a Walker kit for sale I'll contact ya.

Edit: Did a search online as I assume you probably have Wizard. Went through around 10 pages of sites that mentioned having Uberti Walker kits for sale. Some I'm familiar with, others not. All posted as out-of-stock, many indicated no back order. Noticed also many were out of stock of finished Walkers and Walker parts. Have noticed here on this forum and others reference talk about Italian repo percussion revolvers that there is a scarcity of them in US due to factories behind, trying to catch up from Covid shutdowns. Some reports indicate that new production revolvers aren't up to old quality standards due to losing some experienced workers and being shorthanded. There are around 8-10 Walkers (new-used) on GunBroker if you ever deal with them. A percussion handgun won't require going through a FFL to receive and can be sent through the mail. A guy on the CAS forum posted a NIB, never fired 2nd model Dragoon for sale in late December. No indication he's sold it. Wants $450.00.
 
Last edited:
Thanks Crow Choker for the great information. I appreciate you taking the time out to share your wisdom.

I am going to look around and see what might be out there, Walker or Dragoon. Does not have to be a kit, will look at new finished also.

Thanks again
Bill
 
Thinking of adding another .44 cal cap & ball to my collection.

Cant make up my mind if I should pick up a Walker or Dragoon. Pietta or Uberti

So would like your pro,s and con,s of each model and what your preferences are.

Thanks in advance for sharing your advice and wisdom.

Bill
Walkers are over 5 pounds! I had one and couldn't hardly GIVE it away! Go for the Dragoon, it's more human-friendly. :)
 
Wizard: Midway has Whitville Dragoon in stock (2 according to website) at $499 but say no returns. Don't know if that means defective product also. See Taylors (according to their website) has all four Dragoons and Walker in stock. $500 for Dragoons, $508 for WhitVille and Walker. Of course they supposedly had your Walker kit in stock to. I've worked with both outfits before. Have bought alot of things from A-Z from Midway over the last 20 years and have always had good cust service. Bought my WhitVille from them and not one issue and I'm fussy.

Have bought probably a 1/2 dozen Colt cappers plus a Colt Conversion from Taylors. Always good cust service from them. Talked with head gal once and she advised any problem with any firearm or anything they sell, she'll back it up. Can't recall if it was her or another main employee advised that they hand check every firearm that comes in to their facility. Anything minor they can fix/adjust, their inhouse smith does so. Bad stuff goes back. I doubt seriously Midway and Cabela's type stores do so. Was advised by a former Cimarron employee Cimarron does basically the same thing. On Cimarrons website they list their current price but ask for ya to call. Wonder if it something to do with availability. Didn't see Walkers listed at Cimarron. Have purchased two cappers, two conversions, and a mod 66 Yellowboy from Cimarron. One issue with Open Top model rear sights and they replaced entire revolver.

I did buy my Walker at Cabela's in Owatonna, Minn but I had the clerk lay out the seven they had in stock, and I went through everyone and hand picked what I thought was the best. No issues with it except adjust arbor length. Advised the behind county clerk if they wanted to sell me one, checking them all was required. He had no problem. Store manager of some sort came by and looked sort of grumpy at seven Walkers on the counter. Clerk talked with him and he nodded ok. Good luck on your search.

Edit: Wizard see you posted a buy just before I posted this. Good deal. You'll like the WhitVille, mini Walker sort of. It is my 2nd fav or the Dragoons. If i had bought it first vs the 2nd it probably would be my go to Dragoon. 2nd beats it out due to sentimental stuff. You'll enjoy it, maybe more than the Walker.
 
Last edited:
Thanks Crow Choker. I just ordered the Whitneyville Dragoon from Midway. After the Taylor fiasco on the kit, just didnt get a warm fuzzy feeling trying to order from them again. I have used Midway in the past, and have always had good success and service
Cabt wait to see it and get some range time with it.

Thanks
Bill
 

Latest posts

Back
Top