If one graduates a step up to using paper cartridges almost exclusively what is the point in carrying either a horn or flask? I guess they still make fine decoration but are they still worn or just hung on the wall?
Wall hangers?
- Thread starter Eutycus
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2021
- Messages
- 735
- Reaction score
- 650
Not much point. What are you shooting these from?
.45 and .50 CVAs on the rifles and a ASM 44 1851 Navy on the revolver. Not sure about paper cartridges for the 45 pistol yet.
Are you putting powder only in the cartridges or loading the ball also?
Powder, wad, and then the ball.
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2021
- Messages
- 824
- Reaction score
- 756
I could see using cartridges for sheer expedience. I really like all the trappings of horn and such, so I probably won't be going to cartridges, but I can see the appeal.
Post pictures, I’d like to see how you have them set up
Presently I don't have any complete cartridges to take pictures of. I foolishly shot them up up last month in anticipation of making some more, now supplys are low. I might have enough "stuff" to make up a new batch but just haven't gotten around to it yet. I gave my wheel weight lead away and was planning on using store-bought swaged balls. For medical reasons I'm not melting wheel weights or any other lead presently. I'm kind of doing nothing (drs. orders) right now.I'm kind of in that experimental stage and this thread was kind of a "what if" question. I'm using Pyrodex and Hornaday balls presently. Everything is sort of experimental at the moment.And that's one of the reasons for the opening question, that was part of the experiment. I was kind of hoping for some input from y'all.
Wildrangeringreen
40 Cal
I still have a small powder flask (like the Pedersoli Colt-Pocket model flasks, only holds an oz. or two of powder) in my cartridge box/shooting bag, along with some patching. I only really have them around in the event my cartridges get wet (not sure how though, they're in a waxed cloth bag, in a wax-soaked block, with a back-up bundle of cartridges wrapped in wax-paper underneath).
On my small, small bore guns (.32 and smaller) (when loaded with ball), I do use that little pocket flask stuck in my jeans pocket for powder (with the spout cut down to throw roughly 5gr), a poly TC T-handle short starter, and carry a handful of groove-sized balls in the patchbox to drive down the barrel. In that case a cartridge containing a ball and 5gr of powder are almost be too small to be convenient (think: .22 Short -sized cartridges made out of paper, talk about frustration).
With revolvers, it makes loading a snap (that's why cartridges were originally very popular); and you can stand up on the line and load, provided you have caps in your pocket and a couple pocket-boxes for your cartridges. No loading stands, no fumbling with flasks and measures, just load and shoot.
Another thing to consider with cartridges is that you can make up large batches of them during the winter (or when it's bad weather/too hot/too cold out), and then shoot off your stock when it's nice out.
They each have their uses, but I like the convenience, consistency and safety cartridges provide; especially with double guns, dump a cartridge's worth of powder in a barrel, stick the projectile(s) and paper in the muzzle, then the barrel's plugged to eliminate the chance of double charging (If you see the cartridge sticking out the muzzle, and you decide load another cartridge anyways, we need to have a serious conversation about why we can't have nice things
) . Then just ram both barrels at the same time, which also eliminates the chance of shooting your rammer downrange, as pushing the projectile(s) down and taking the rammer out of the barrel doesn't really involve completely letting go of the rammer (If you left it in the barrel, you chose to do it). Since switching almost exclusively to cartridges, I've never once wondered, "did I put powder down the barrel?", or "Did I put a bullet down the barrel?", or "Did I bring everything I need to shoot?" (provided I grabbed a properly labeled packet of cartridges). Grab one, load one, shoot. Powder flasks/horns and volumetric measures are field-expedient backups.
On my small, small bore guns (.32 and smaller) (when loaded with ball), I do use that little pocket flask stuck in my jeans pocket for powder (with the spout cut down to throw roughly 5gr), a poly TC T-handle short starter, and carry a handful of groove-sized balls in the patchbox to drive down the barrel. In that case a cartridge containing a ball and 5gr of powder are almost be too small to be convenient (think: .22 Short -sized cartridges made out of paper, talk about frustration).
With revolvers, it makes loading a snap (that's why cartridges were originally very popular); and you can stand up on the line and load, provided you have caps in your pocket and a couple pocket-boxes for your cartridges. No loading stands, no fumbling with flasks and measures, just load and shoot.
Another thing to consider with cartridges is that you can make up large batches of them during the winter (or when it's bad weather/too hot/too cold out), and then shoot off your stock when it's nice out.
They each have their uses, but I like the convenience, consistency and safety cartridges provide; especially with double guns, dump a cartridge's worth of powder in a barrel, stick the projectile(s) and paper in the muzzle, then the barrel's plugged to eliminate the chance of double charging (If you see the cartridge sticking out the muzzle, and you decide load another cartridge anyways, we need to have a serious conversation about why we can't have nice things
) . Then just ram both barrels at the same time, which also eliminates the chance of shooting your rammer downrange, as pushing the projectile(s) down and taking the rammer out of the barrel doesn't really involve completely letting go of the rammer (If you left it in the barrel, you chose to do it). Since switching almost exclusively to cartridges, I've never once wondered, "did I put powder down the barrel?", or "Did I put a bullet down the barrel?", or "Did I bring everything I need to shoot?" (provided I grabbed a properly labeled packet of cartridges). Grab one, load one, shoot. Powder flasks/horns and volumetric measures are field-expedient backups.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2021
- Messages
- 824
- Reaction score
- 756
@Griz44Mag makes excellent pure lead cast balls for a very reasonable price. More reasonable than commercially available swaged LRBs. If you're gonna spend money on them I can't recommend him enough. Cartridges are convenient if one has a stock of them well made and in store. But I reckon the appeal of the old horn, patching, and ball is that one does not "need" to wait for cartridges. It is interesting though that, from very early, Colt's sold paper cartridges. Yet each gun came with a flask and mould. Reckon one is not superior t'other.
I just may have to send Grizz a PM and see about some lead balls. In the mean time I'll go on experimenting. I had a gallon bucket of nitered envelopes made of coffee filters.Now they are not to be found. I'm guessing the cleaning lady (my wife's neice) threw them out. Oh which shoulder do YOU hang a flask from?
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2021
- Messages
- 824
- Reaction score
- 756
My father-in-law claims that he has never misplaced anything, but that his wife "tidies things away" all the time.
When it comes to powder horns, all mine are slung to a length just above the accompanying bag. I resolved to have one bag and one horn for each gun. Granted, which bag and which horn goes with what gun is apt to change every seven of the Lord's days. But, I try to remain consistent so that if I decide to up and go I know exactly what to grab.Most of our forebears didn't have the luxury of five guns hanging on the wall for one man as I do. So, in light of that I try to keep the guns and bags bound to one another by caliber.
If you decide to carry a horn, but don't want to"carry a horn", a small flattened horn full of 3f that slips into a pocket would be a good choice. You can load and prime with 3f and not have to bother with a primer, or a big old horn with a custom made patterned strap and so forth.
only real worry with a hard ball is getting it stuck
provided you do not use a ball large enough to get stuck .. just about any properly sized sphere of metal will work just fine
bronze, iron and copper roundballs have all been used with success, and every one of them is a lot harder than lead
now if we are loading a revolver I will agree 100% that a soft lead ball is a must, in a rifle...not so much
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2010
- Messages
- 157
- Reaction score
- 297
Model 1777 Charleville.
I most often use paper cartridges = FFg powder and ball.
I carry a small horn for priming — FFFg powder.
I most often use paper cartridges = FFg powder and ball.
I carry a small horn for priming — FFFg powder.
I haven't shot paper cartridges but few times from a rifle, is the paper enough of a patch?Like I said I still experimenting.
I have a horn and a flask, but they're only used in instruction sessions as a "show and tell" to demonstrate how it's done with that method. Past that, all charges are premeasured and stored in small plastic vials.
I'm a little confused. There is a paper cartridge, used for a rifle. The bullet is removed from one end, the powder pored down the bore, then the paper bunched up and rammed down as a wad, then the bullet.
On revolvers, the most common (only) method used by the military were combustible cartridges, the whole thing simply loaded as is.
On revolvers, the most common (only) method used by the military were combustible cartridges, the whole thing simply loaded as is.
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2010
- Messages
- 157
- Reaction score
- 297
The round ball is in one end of the paper cartridge. I have a single strand of cotton string tied at the base of the ball to separate it from the powder charge. I tear off the top of the cartridge and pour in the powder and then I upend the cartridge and insert it ball first into the muzzle and drive it home with the ramrod.
The paper cartridge functions as a wad to keep everything in place once it has been rammed home.
