Wano PPP vs Swiss FFFG?

[Smokey in Oz]

Guys,
this question has probably been answered a dozen times before but I'll ask anyway.
I just received 5kg of Wano PPP. I've been using Swiss FFFG. Has anyone done the switch and noticed much difference? They both look very similar powders.
I also noticed the Wano container and Pioneer container are the same. Considering they both come from Germany is it possible they come from the same factory/company?
Smokey.

 

[hawkeye1755]

Wano ppp= 0,425-0,710 granulation
Swiss fffg= 0,508-0,870 granulation
Pioneer BP i didn't know.I know that Pow-EX
were made by Wano.
POW-EX = 0,300-0850 granulation
Wano is the only Blackpowder-mill in Germany.
Perhaps Pioneer is the name in Tasmania for POW-EX?
:hatsoff:

 

[Herz_aus_Stahl]

In the Blackpowermill where WANO is made, a few weeks ago happend an accident.

http://www.goslarsche.de/gz/specials/artikel_text/?id=2051&showit=yes

 

[Smokey in Oz]

Sounds serious Herz. I hope no-one was killed or injured. Do you know how long production will be down for? Any more pictures?

It's been 25 years since I did basic German language at school, here is my translation into English of the report.

"Smoke Cloud Over The Black Powder Factory.
There was a huge explosion in the Wano black powder factory, the smoke cloud went a kilometer into the sky and the explosion caused a 100 meter hole.
The cause is not clear but it's believed at least two of factory workers were drinking lager before the accident and their beer steins were broken. (some poetic licence here)
130 craftsmen are employed at the factory, luckily only 70 were onsite at the time and 5 are missing."

Now, I might be way off the mark with my translation, feel free to correct as necessary.
Smokey. :shocked2:

 

[Lone Carabiner]

:bull: Sure they weren't testing a secret weapon for the CIA?

 

[Smokey in Oz]

I just received 5kg of Wano PPP. I've been using Swiss FFFG. Has anyone done the switch and noticed much difference?
Smokey.

Sorry Mr Moderator, maybe I wasn't clear enough in my original post. The question I most wanted answered related to Muzzleloading Accuracy hence the reason I posted in that particular forum. Oh well, never mind, it had drifted off topic anyway...... :shocked2:
Smokey.

 

[Herz_aus_Stahl]

:bull: Sure they weren't testing a secret weapon for the CIA?

:haha:

The smokecloud was 100m high and two workers were injured, one came to a specialclinic for burnings.

The CIA dont test in East-Germany, the WANO Powdermill is occupied by the KGB.

 

[gcebulka]

Wow The KGB is still around? I thought they went out of business... :grin:

 

[Slamfire]

Wow The KGB is still around? I thought they went out of business... :grin:

They do keep changin' names or at least initials, I remember when they were the NKVD. :hmm:

 

[Andrew Halsey]

To dig up an old thread, how did you go with the PPP powder?

I've been running Wano P powder in my Tryon & apart from having to increase the powder load I've found it's not a bad powder.

I picked some PPP powder up at the last away shoot so I'm going to switch to it & run the last of the P in the shotty's.

 

[windwalker_au]

wano and pioner are the same powder they just changed
the name. the ppp wano powders use a better charcoal .it burns kleaner than the wano fff and is a lot hoter powder ,it is a very concistant powder i like it its half the price of swiss here in oz.
bernie :grin:

 

[Mad Monk]

Windwalker,

As far as I know the explosion involved a corning mill. But since they have 3 corning mills it should not put them out of production. I think that two workers were injured but none killed.

The U.S. saw WANO in F grades and the P grades back in 1993. Bloody aweful stuff.

Going back about 5 years. There was a major house cleaning in management.

We had been told that the P grades were made with an alder charcoal while the common F grades were made with beech charcoal.

The P grades were screened to different grain size ranges when compared to the F grades. The P grades were supposed to be more accurate. That simply did not work out.

The WANO P grades simply do not compare to Swiss powder in ballistic strength or in how clean the respective powders burn.

WANO tried to get back into the U.S. market in the year 2000. Shipping powder to an indoor fireworks company down South while they tried to dig up a U.S. importer. This powder was in our U.S. grain sizes and made with an alder charcoal but it was still a good bit slower/weaker than GOEX and was priced well above GOEX.

That changed with the Schuetzen powder made by WANO for the U.S. market.

My mate in Oz at Tamworth told me that Pioneer is just another label for WANO in Oz.

 

[windwalker_au]

the wano we are getting here now is a much better powder than befor, the ppp i use burns very clean in my .50 and .54 guns with good velosity. and is half the price of the swiss, when we can get the swiss.
bernie :grin:

 

[Andrew Halsey]

From what I hear swiss won't be available in Australia for a while.

 

[Mad Monk]

The powder situation in OZ has had its ups and downs.

At one time Howards Of Sydney used to import both WANO and GOEX. Then they switched to Chinese black powder.

A small shipment of Swiss powder got into Oz for some international shooting competition a few years back. There were rumors that someone was going to bring in another small shipment.

The problem with getting bp into OZ is the size of the shipments and finding ships willing to transport small amounts at a reasonable cost.

Some years back I used to assist the chap who imported bp into NZ. At times the experience can be an expensive nightmare.

ICI used to have ships carrying bp and other explosives. They ceased the black powder transportation with a comment to the effect of not making little milk runs all over the area.

As to the quality of the WANO you presently have available.
As I said in a prior post. A few years back there was some serious house cleaning in the management. The guy who had come up with the P grades went off on his own. I had spent 10 years trying to convince WANO that they needed to clean up their propellant grades if they wished to compete in the American market. By 2001 - 2002 they finally understood what had to be done and did it.