Want to get into Muzzleloading and have a lot of questions so I figured I would post in this forum.

[SDSmlf]

I saw a few on gunbroker selling at $800 and $900 and I couldn't justify spending that on a gun that doesn't seem appealing.

Asking vs selling price. Big difference.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Hello from Damascus, birthplace of Meeshach Browning.

I asked them what flintlock I should start off with as I haven't a clue and this was the response I got. 3 of my crew members use .45cal rifles and said to go with them as there is a powder shortage right now and they use less powder.

.45 will have the least kick out of all of the five calibers that your crew shoots. BUT powder shortages won't last and IF there is that huge an advantage of the smaller caliber by using less powder, then how come they all haven't switched to .40, since it's still legal for deer in Maryland and uses even less powder at the range?

2 of my crew members said to use .58 caliber as it kills more efficiently and renders .50 and .54 useless.

I'd debate them on "efficiency" since I can use less powder and have a flatter trajectory than they have with their .58's, while I shoot my .54. Once you reach the threshold of the deer literally dropping where it was standing when it was hit..., the debate ends. Nobody can say "mine was deader". DRT is DRT (dead, right there). If the .58 really rendered the .50 and .54 "useless" you might as them why sooo many of the rifles made when flintlocks were state-of-the-art, much less than .58. OH and if .58 is gooder than .50, then why not shoot a .62 or even a .72 rifle ???

5 crew members use smooth barrel flintlocks ( I called them shotgun and was sternly reminded that they are actually "Fowlers". 3 use Pedersoli Trade Guns, 1 uses a Veteran Arms Fusil de chasse and the last uses an original fowler from CT which is longer than a telephone pole.

Smoothbores tend to be more versatile, in that you can also hunt small game and birds with shot. They do lose the longer range of the rifle, however, but in Maryland a lot of the deer hunting is in areas where that is not an advantage.

Finally my Supervisor and Foreman both use .65 cal German rifles they bought at a show in Ohio.

Some fellers like them really large calibers, and short barrels. Some folks also have deep pockets.

I've read that FFG can't be used for anything larger than .50 cal. ..., , will a .45 cal be good enough or should I buy one of the fowlers and try and find larger grain powder. ..., Also anyone in Maryland on here? If so what have your experiences been like if you want to share them, what has worked for you when hunting deer or other game.

So as to granulation, YES you can use 3Fg in a larger bore rifle. My .54 shoots it just fine as does my .40.
3Fg also does very well when shooting shot from a smooth bore.
YES a .45 is plenty for deer in Maryland.

You will find, however, some folks don't see too well (or have ailments), and are concerned of being a little off of the optimal point-of-impact when hunting deer, so psychologically, they opt for a larger caliber. They try to make up for the less than optimal shot with impact, BUT if you ever hunt with these types of guys..., you will likely see that they get the deer in mighty close and really would have no trouble bringing down the animal with a .50 or .45. The larger caliber just gives them confidence, and more relaxed = a better shot.

You will also find in the general hunting community, guys who are crap-tastic shots..., and try to make up for poor marksmanship, an inaccurate rifle, and a poor ammo load with heavy powder and a heavy bullet. Happily, that pretty much is NOT found in the BP world, since we get one shot, so folks mark darn sure it's going to "count".

What YOU need to find..., is a rifle that will shoot straight for you. PERIOD full stop. ☺

A rifle that shoots well is a joy to use, and because of that joy, you will want to shoot it rather often, and because of shooting it often, you will get good with it and will stay good with it..., you will understand what it can do and more importantly what it cannot do, and you will have wonderful adventures with it.

I bought a Cabin Creek Pennsylvania Mountain Rifle in .54 with a single trigger, as it was very simple, and it was used so it was a bargain. I wanted something that maybe I would've found had I gone West to the Illinois, to Kaskaskia, and got it and some clothing and gear from George Morgan at his trading post, just as in the book Sons of a Trackless Forest. Trudy shoots better from the bench than I can when not on a bench, and she hammers deer with 70 grains of 3Fg and a patched .530 round ball.

Well that's all from Damascus, Maryland for now.

LD

 

[LonePine]

Hey all, just joined the forum today and I have many, many questions. Recently I became a member of the Maryland Forestry Service and all but 1 member on my 12 man crew is big into using Flintlocks ( that member is me). I went shooting with them a few times and fell in love. I was amazed by the flintlocks they had. It all seems so much more interesting than just plopping a brass chunk into a barrel and going bang. I asked them what flintlock I should start off with as I haven't a clue and this was the response I got. 3 of my crew members use .45cal rifles and said to go with them as there is a powder shortage right now and they use less powder. 2 of my crew members said to use .58 caliber as it kills more efficiently and renders .50 and .54 useless. 5 crew members use smooth barrel flintlocks ( I called them shotgun and was sternly reminded that they are actually "Fowlers". 3 use Pedersoli Trade Guns, 1 uses a Veteran Arms Fusil de chasse and the last uses an original fowler from CT which is longer than a telephone pole. Finally my Supervisor and Foreman both use .65 cal German rifles they bought at a show in Ohio. I know this is a lot of useless info but here is where I'm stumped. My most local sporting store sells .32-.50 round balls and only FFG blackpowder "Old Eynesford" limit of 1 lb per person per day until supplies run out. I've read that FFG can't be used for anything larger than .50 cal. Secondly, there are 7 flintlocks for sale at my local store. 3 are .45 cal long rifles ranging in different lengths. 1 is a custom job in .577 for "enfield bullets" and the other 3 are .32 for small game, a 16g fowler and a 20g fowler. I don't really like the idea of buying a rifle online but am open to it I'd rather see and check the fit. Bottom line what does everyone think is better , will a .45 cal be good enough or should I buy one of the fowlers and try and find larger grain powder. They all fit me and hold amazing. I just want some opinions from those with experience and I guess this is a great place to start. If this post is in the wrong spot I apologize and if I bore you all with this post I apologize in advance. I thank everyone who responds with their experiences and opinions and all input on the topic will be appreciated greatly. Also anyone in Maryland on here? If so what have your experiences been like if you want to share them, what has worked for you when hunting deer or other game.

I just joined the forum too, I live in Little Orleans. I am also looking for a first flintlock to hunt with. SmoothboreMurph invited be to his farm and I met with him and a few of his buddies and they let me shoot their guns. I think I am going to have a .54 or .58 Kibler Colonial built for me. Jim Kiblers rifles are highly recommended on this forum. I would put the kit together myself but I have Huntingtons Disease and have no fine motor functions left in my hand to do the wood working and fitting.

 

[Murphy_Roberts]

Hello from Damascus, birthplace of Meeshach Browning.



.45 will have the least kick out of all of the five calibers that your crew shoots. BUT powder shortages won't last and IF there is that huge an advantage of the smaller caliber by using less powder, then how come they all haven't switched to .40, since it's still legal for deer in Maryland and uses even less powder at the range?




I'd debate them on "efficiency" since I can use less powder and have a flatter trajectory than they have with their .58's, while I shoot my .54. Once you reach the threshold of the deer literally dropping where it was standing when it was hit..., the debate ends. Nobody can say "mine was deader". DRT is DRT (dead, right there). If the .58 really rendered the .50 and .54 "useless" you might as them why sooo many of the rifles made when flintlocks were state-of-the-art, much less than .58. OH and if .58 is gooder than .50, then why not shoot a .62 or even a .72 rifle ???



Smoothbores tend to be more versatile, in that you can also hunt small game and birds with shot. They do lose the longer range of the rifle, however, but in Maryland a lot of the deer hunting is in areas where that is not an advantage.



Some fellers like them really large calibers, and short barrels. Some folks also have deep pockets.




So as to granulation, YES you can use 3Fg in a larger bore rifle. My .54 shoots it just fine as does my .40.
3Fg also does very well when shooting shot from a smooth bore.
YES a .45 is plenty for deer in Maryland.

You will find, however, some folks don't see too well (or have ailments), and are concerned of being a little off of the optimal point-of-impact when hunting deer, so psychologically, they opt for a larger caliber. They try to make up for the less than optimal shot with impact, BUT if you ever hunt with these types of guys..., you will likely see that they get the deer in mighty close and really would have no trouble bringing down the animal with a .50 or .45. The larger caliber just gives them confidence, and more relaxed = a better shot.

You will also find in the general hunting community, guys who are crap-tastic shots..., and try to make up for poor marksmanship, an inaccurate rifle, and a poor ammo load with heavy powder and a heavy bullet. Happily, that pretty much is NOT found in the BP world, since we get one shot, so folks mark darn sure it's going to "count".

What YOU need to find..., is a rifle that will shoot straight for you. PERIOD full stop. ☺

A rifle that shoots well is a joy to use, and because of that joy, you will want to shoot it rather often, and because of shooting it often, you will get good with it and will stay good with it..., you will understand what it can do and more importantly what it cannot do, and you will have wonderful adventures with it.

I bought a Cabin Creek Pennsylvania Mountain Rifle in .54 with a single trigger, as it was very simple, and it was used so it was a bargain. I wanted something that maybe I would've found had I gone West to the Illinois, to Kaskaskia, and got it and some clothing and gear from George Morgan at his trading post, just as in the book Sons of a Trackless Forest. Trudy shoots better from the bench than I can when not on a bench, and she hammers deer with 70 grains of 3Fg and a patched .530 round ball.

Well that's all from Damascus, Maryland for now.

LD

It appears judging by everyone's replies and now your own that .50 and .54 are the most useful. I was watching some YouTube videos and I learned that most Pennsylvania Longrifles were only .45cal. I am going to keep an eye out for .50cal and .54 cal rifles. I've also been giving smoothbores a thought. I don't have a shotgun at the moment so the smoothbore would definitely fill that role and even with a rifle I don't think I would be comfortable with taking more than a 60 yard shot. If you had to recommend a smoothbore what would it be ? Also thank you for the reply it is good to see a lot of Maryland forum members and thank you for all of your answers you knocked it out of the park with your reply you are very knowledgeable.

 

[Murphy_Roberts]

I just joined the forum too, I live in Little Orleans. I am also looking for a first flintlock to hunt with. SmoothboreMurph invited be to his farm and I met with him and a few of his buddies and they let me shoot their guns. I think I am going to have a .54 or .58 Kibler Colonial built for me. Jim Kiblers rifles are highly recommended on this forum. I would put the kit together myself but I have Huntingtons Disease and have no fine motor functions left in my hand to do the wood working and fitting.

I dont feel confident to put a kit together and the kiblers are kind of expensive in my opinion. They look beautiful on the website but definitely not a good first for me. Hope yours comes out great and happy hunting over your way hopefully you don't have to drag any deer out of the C&O.

 

[GoodRabbitPilgrim]

I assume the trade gun is popular, do you prefer it to your rifles ? Would it be a gun first flintlock in your opinion ?

I live I Australia, black powder in general isn't as popular the states. Trade guns are pretty sought after by black powder nuts everywhere. I really like mine and as it happens it's my first flintlock. Due to covid we haven't been able to get 62 cal moulds or balls so I haven't really got a good ball set up, great with shot though!
Whether it's the best for your first depends on what you want, are you planning on shooting squirrel, rabbits and such and the deer under 50 yards? If so you probably can't get a better option.

I shoot out past 100 yards regularly which is why I want a rifled flintlock too. Currently debating whether to order a pedersoli frontier 54 cal or a chambers edward marshall 58 cal.

I use 2F for all my muzzleloader guns, but I have nothing below 50 cal. It's probably the best powder option from 50 up. If you're using a 45 then 3F is better. Both will work for either though.

Trade gun hare

 

[Murphy_Roberts]

I live I Australia, black powder in general isn't as popular the states. Trade guns are pretty sought after by black powder nuts everywhere. I really like mine and as it happens it's my first flintlock. Due to covid we haven't been able to get 62 cal moulds or balls so I haven't really got a good ball set up, great with shot though!
Whether it's the best for your first depends on what you want, are you planning on shooting squirrel, rabbits and such and the deer under 50 yards? If so you probably can't get a better option.

I shoot out past 100 yards regularly which is why I want a rifled flintlock too. Currently debating whether to order a pedersoli frontier 54 cal or a chambers edward marshall 58 cal.

Trade gun hare
View attachment 113753

Is your trade gun a Pedersoli? I want to hunt just about anything, Deer, Squirrels and Rabbits. Possibly some turkey and waterfowl. Also on a side note one of my 2 modern rifles is a .310 Cadet Greener Martini with a little Kangaroo stamped on it gun was made for the state of Victoria in 1911. I've taken 3 Coyotes and a few rabbits with it.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I've also been giving smoothbores a thought. I don't have a shotgun at the moment so the smoothbore would definitely fill that role and even with a rifle I don't think I would be comfortable with taking more than a 60 yard shot. If you had to recommend a smoothbore what would it be ?

Some of your crew members use a Veterans Arms trade gun.
I have one by Loyalist Arms. I've shot plenty of squirresl and in fact hope to do so on Monday. IF you have a very limited budget, that's not a bad gun.
A Pedersoli Indian Trade Musket ...KIT.., is also a good choice... I have one of these too.

OH and it's just some sanding and wood finishing..., nothing very complicated at all. A kid in High School Woodworking Class could do it in a few hours.

LD

 

[appalichian hunter]

Any pawn shops in your neck of the woods, if so check them out and take a bore light with you.

 

[B P Maniac Shooter]

Schuetzen Powder is available. Toby Butler has plenty in Texas. Call 806-470-4130, he ships the same day.
This video focuses mainly on percussion guns, but, it will help you get started:

 

[Murphy_Roberts]

Some of your crew members use a Veterans Arms trade gun.
I have one by Loyalist Arms. I've shot plenty of squirresl and in fact hope to do so on Monday. IF you have a very limited budget, that's not a bad gun.
A Pedersoli Indian Trade Musket ...KIT.., is also a good choice... I have one of these too.

OH and it's just some sanding and wood finishing..., nothing very complicated at all. A kid in High School Woodworking Class could do it in a few hours.

LD

Really I thought a gun kit was harder than that. I was reading some things online about Track of the Wolf kits and The Rifle Shoppe kits being a pain in the neck so it kinda through me off. Does the skin barrel on the Fusil make a difference or is it fine ? Does it rust easily ?

 

[Murphy_Roberts]

Any pawn shops in your neck of the woods, if so check them out and take a bore light with you.

There are two in Frostburg that are a Pawn and Gun and one is a gunsmith I will be checking out tomorrow. I hope to find something good there. On a side note my neck of the woods is mostly just woods.

 

[Murphy_Roberts]

Schuetzen Powder is available. Toby Butler has plenty in Texas. Call 806-470-4130, he ships the same day.
This video focuses mainly on percussion guns, but, it will help you get started:

Thanks for the info I will give him a call on Monday wouldn't want to disturb him on a weekend.

 

[GoodRabbitPilgrim]

Is your trade gun a Pedersoli? I want to hunt just about anything, Deer, Squirrels and Rabbits. Possibly some turkey and waterfowl. Also on a side note one of my 2 modern rifles is a .310 Cadet Greener Martini with a little Kangaroo stamped on it gun was made for the state of Victoria in 1911. I've taken 3 Coyotes and a few rabbits with it.

Yes mine is a pedersoli, she's a good sparker. If that's the case and shots are on the close side it might be all you need.

That would probably be a Sportco with the little roo on it. I shot with a Henry martini Sportco .22lr growing up. Accurate little gun. Those were from the days when Victoria (my state) wasn't a Cali type anti gun state!

 

[Murphy_Roberts]

Yes mine is a pedersoli, she's a good sparker. If that's the case and shots are on the close side it might be all you need.

That would probably be a Sportco with the little roo on it. I shot with a Henry martini Sportco .22lr growing up. Accurate little gun. Those were from the days when Victoria (my state) wasn't a Cali type anti gun state!

I was wrong about it being a Greener it is a Birmingham Small Arms with the Victoria Stamp on the stock and the Kangaroo on the top of the receiver. Hard to reload for I guess it is easier to reload for it in Australia.

 

[GoodRabbitPilgrim]

I was wrong about it being a Greener it is a Birmingham Small Arms with the Victoria Stamp on the stock and the Kangaroo on the top of the receiver. Hard to reload for I guess it is easier to reload for it in Australia.

I don't actually know anyone with a 310 cadet, 308 is considered old school these days!

 

[Macman]

I live I Australia, black powder in general isn't as popular the states.

Just curious: I understand that in Australia guns have been outlawed. I assume that black powder is ok?

 

[Rawhide67]

You'll get a different opinion from each different post. I would say. Based on what's available near me. 45 and 50 are "most common" as round balls are pretty much always available for them. 54 a little less so. 58 or 62 or larger, fogetaboutit. Same with 40 and 32.

But. Almost all of what you need can be had online. Someone mentioned 58 being overkill, I would disagree. It's not a 458 Winchester round, just a slightly bigger hole. I have two 20ga flint fowlers, one 16ga, one 12ga and one 10 ga. I have yet to take a deer with one as I've only been infected by the flintlock virus for about 2 years.

Keep in mind, it's addictive.

 

[gerryherd]

Buy Eric Byes book on Flintlocks - available through the NMLRA (which you should consider joining).

 

[Sidney Smith]

Well I'm partial to the .54 caliber. I know that isn't your first choice but that fine. I just like the .54 because it's got a little more oomph than a .50, and everybody's got a .50 caliber.

Think about what you plan to do most with the gun. If it's target shooting, then any caliber will suffice. Of course the smaller calibers will allow lead and powder to go further, but you're going to burn it either way you go.

If hunting is your first choice then narrow it down to the game and then choose. If you say everything, then you'd better go with a smoothbore. If deer, then a larger caliber will be ideal. If small game, then go with a .32 or .36 caliber.