CLOSED Wanted - Ruger Old Army

[Patch]

What's the difference between the 1858 and the 1860?

Back in the 19th century, Colt and Remington were two of the biggest competitors vying for lucrative military contracts and the even bigger civilian market where owning what the military used meant "you could trust your life on it" or whatever the marketing was back then. Name recognition has never changed. Remington came out with the 1858 and Colt came out with the 1860, both .44 cal. The 1851 is a .36 cal Colt Navy model. With modern manufacturing the only difference is what fits better in your hand and what you think looks cooler. I prefer the 1860, it's probably lighter than an 1858 but I've never weighed them so I don't know. Both models are a good choice. I prefer the Uberti brand slightly more than Pietta, but they are both nice.

The 1858 offered by Uberti or Pietta is a clone of the 1858 Remington so they most closely match the ROA you originally searched for.

So what parts break on the ROA that can't be replaced?

Probably none of them, but $#!* happens and I don't want to have to hunt down a 20 dollar screw from a fleabayer when it does?

What's a fair price for a Uberti or Pietta?

Hard to say. Depends on if you buy new or used and what model you get and who is having a sale on them. 300-350 for a steel frame brand new in box from a major retailer, considerably less for a brass frame? Though Cabelas has the occasional sale for 200 bucks or you could get lucky and pick one up from a pawn shop for 10 bucks but stuff like that never happens to me. One recommendation I would give is that you should buy the steel frame model over the brass one. During the Civil War, iron was difficult for the South to acquire and then manufacture with for any number of reasons and they started producing brass framed revolvers. You may see the modern reproductions getting called the Union model for a steel frame and Confederate for the brass. I'm not really equipped to debate metallurgy past or present like some of the other members here probably are, and I've never really heard of a brass frame getting stretched out of spec, but for the piece of mind I just pay the extra money and go with the steel framed models.

If you see an ad on a forum, you should first google the item to see if it is a good deal and then who the seller is. Log Cabin Shop, Track of the Wolf, Midway, Cabelas, DixieGunWorks places like that to get a good idea what the going value is and then do a little homework on the seller if you think the price is fair for the condition. Since you are sending your money first maybe be weary about buying from someone who just signed up yesterday, stuff like that.

Good luck finding what you want and feel free to ask me any more questions here or in a PM!

 

[Patch]

Another major consideration you should look into during your search is a common problem with cap and ball revolvers where the cap dislodges from the nipple and jams up the mechanism. This problem tends to predominantly show up in colt clones but occasionally in some remingtons as well. Any number of reasons why that happens but it can be mitigated to varying degrees with some research.

 

[FlyingMountainBoomer]

Be prepared to do some clean up work on new Uberti or Pietta revolvers. It's not hard, and you'll learn a lot about they operate. Youtube is full of videos on how to slick them up. All of the guns I've worked over went from "meh" to reliable and greatly enhanced the shooting experience.

 

[Dude]

Thanks guys! That helps a lot.

I've got a Pietta 51 brass and always heard it referred to as the 51 Navy, but wasn't sure what it was copied after. I kind of thought it was the Colt but wasn't sure. Thanks to you I'm getting that sorted out.

So the Colts had the open top and Remingtons had the more modern complete frame like the ROAs.

And then to confuse the issue, Remington came out with a new version in 1860. Were both Remington and Colt used by the army at that time?

I've seen an extensive write-up on how to tune-up all the various revolvers and went through it with my 51. I need to find it again and bookmark it. Excellent tutorial!

I've also read or seen instructions about notching the nipple to help split the cap so it falls off as Samuel intended. Haven't tried it out since I don't even know if there's an issue firing my gun.

I'm thinking I'd be interested in getting an 1860 Colt. I used to think they weren't as strong as the Remington style, but I've heard recently that's not true - and besides, no one has had the Colts loosen up, even the brass versions. And they're just plain cool looking.

 

[Patch]

And then to confuse the issue, Remington came out with a new version in 1860. Were both Remington and Colt used by the army at that time?

Samuel Colt first started adding "Army" or "Navy" to the names of his revolver models as a strategy to target the civilian market and it was so successful that other manufacturers such as Remington started copying it as well. As far as 18XX goes, I'm not sure if they were even called that back then or if adding the year is a modern thing done to distinguish all the different models? Remington and Colt are both big names with big military contracts from their earliest days, I'm not sure what Army or Navy used what and when but they added Army typically for 44 cal and Navy for 36 cal to the names of whatever their newest model was and then went about trying to sell them, if a military picked them up then great and if not the name stayed on anyways and gave added credibility to them on the civilian market.

I'm thinking I'd be interested in getting an 1860 Colt. I used to think they weren't as strong as the Remington style, but I've heard recently that's not true - and besides, no one has had the Colts loosen up, even the brass versions. And they're just plain cool looking.

The open top frame on the 1860 is objectively not as strong of a design as the solid frame design of the Remington 1858, but it was plenty strong enough for back then and with modern steel and things getting way overbuilt for liability purposes and manufacturing convenience it's even stronger today. Either option would be a good purchase. If you want to look cooler then go with the 1860, it you want something a little less finicky with the caps then go with the 1858. I think looking cooler is more important so that's why I originally recommended the 1860 as an alternative.

There's also the soft stats to consider such as what feels more comfortable in your hand, aims better, what has better balance, etc, etc. For my own preference I feel the Colt has much better soft stats than the Remington but I like them both.

 

[gvandersluis]

Owned 5 ROA, 2 x 5 1/2in fixed sight and three 7 1/2 in adjustable sight. Still have one 7 1/2 which I use for precision shooting. Nothing has ever broken on any of them. But disassembling for cleaning there are a couple of tiny springs easily lost. Just the best percussion revolver ever made. No longer produced grab one when you can
Gary

 

[Dude]

Thanks, Patch. I think I'm getting a handle on this now. I'd wondered about the navy thing, especially after reading somewhere that they were called the 'navy' because of the engraved ship scene on the barrel. But calling it a marketing scheme gets to the heart of it for me.

I can get lost in the names, so your explanation helps a lot.

Since there's no reason I can't have just one, I may as well plan on eventually having the full collection - 1851 Navy, 1858 Remington, 1860 Colt and an ROA.

Now that Ruger has taken over Remington, it would only be fitting that they bring back their Remington upgrade/copy.

 

[Zonie]

Thanks, Patch. I think I'm getting a handle on this now. I'd wondered about the navy thing, especially after reading somewhere that they were called the 'navy' because of the engraved ship scene on the barrel....

Many people think the "NAVY" was called that because of the Texas/Mexican navy battle scene on the cylinder but, this myth is blown out of the water when they discover the .44 caliber Colt 1860 ARMY also has the same, Texas/Mexican navy battle scene on its cylinder.

 

[Dude]

Evidently the terms 'Army' or 'Navy' were marketing ploys intended to elicit an emotional response with absolutely no substance behind them. Ok, I get it.

 

[Patch]

Since there's no reason I can't have just one, I may as well plan on eventually having the full collection

I couldn't have said it better myself. Don't forget though that the most common sidearm of this era was the pocket pistol so make sure you leave room for a .31 cal in there as well...

As far as any company tooling back up to bring back the ROA I have my doubts, Ruger didn't see it as viable but they were in negotiations a few years back to license it out to a third party or something, I'm not really sure. The projected MSRP on it was going to be around a thousand bucks or something ridiculous and wasn't going to be manufactured by Ruger or have their name anywhere on it. I don't think it went anywhere?

 

[nightwolf1974]

I love ROAs, but the only thing I dislike is the way the loading lever just will fall apart when removed after one uses a screwdriver to release it from the frame.

 

[Boston Bill]

I love ROAs, but the only thing I dislike is the way the loading lever just will fall apart when removed after one uses a screwdriver to release it from the frame.

I agree. But the more I shoot it the easier it is to prevent that or at the least gets easier to handle.

 

[TC Tommy]

My local gun shop has a blue one for $550

You didn't run down and get it? Do they still have it, if so what is their name and number?

 

[Dude]

Tommy - I contacted them and the price was actually more like $750 or $800. For 5 or 550 I'd have gotten it.

What's the problem with the ROA loading lever falling apart once you release it? As long as it works as intended installed, I don't understand why that would be an issue. I do know that if the loading lever isn't locked in when ramming the ball home, the cylinder arbor can back out and there's enough leverage applied that it can bend the arbor. I've heard that's pretty common.

Patch - I guess I've been on the macho side of this game wanting none of those wimpy sissy little caliber guns. But the more I hear about the .36 the more interested I've become. And now you're really pushing the limits with a .31! Well, ok, I'll check them out.

And I hear you on the tooling up costs for a new ROA. I guess it doesn't make sense when it's already a copy. But on the other hand, it's essentially a modified Blackhawk so I don't understand why it would be such a big deal.

It looks like I've been steered towards the 1860 Colt - so if I'm going to get one of them, I may as well do it right and get a real one. Any of you have a generation 2 or 3 you'd like to sell?

 

[Boston Bill]

As long as it works as intended installed, I don't understand why that would be an issue.

Because until you get the hang of it reinstalling the assembly it is a PIA

 

[Zonie]

Since Dude has started a post asking for a 2nd Gen Colt 1860 and decided not to buy a Ruger Old Army, I'm going to close this ad.