Watching Jeremiah Johnson

[jonathan butcher]

My favs which all include flintlock arms- The Revenant, Last of The Mohicans and The Patriot. I also have a soft spot for the Alamo movie with Billy Bob Thorton.

 

[Grenadier1758]

This is sort of a "Duh" moment for me I never thought about them using caliber instead of gauge.

However, in September 1971 I saw a Hawken Mountain Rifle artfully displayed behind glass in a small museum in Denver, CO. At the bottom of the case, there were tiny round lead shot laid out next to a small bag, which I glanced over UNTIL I went around the side of the case and saw that .22 cal. hole in what otherwise was a "Mountain Rifle Size" Barrel Muzzle.

So by the time I saw the movie in 1972, I figured the ".32 Caliber" line in the movie, was just a typo made in the script, because I had seen an original Hawken in .22 caliber.

Gus

Recently I saw a copy of an add for a rifle that read "Caliber - 32 Bore for a Half Ounce Ball"

Famous for their big bore rifles they made lots of small bore dainty guns, very Ohioish in looks.
Not Hawken, but western guns, Ive seen several Lemans in 30,or .36 caliber that looked otherwise like his big bore trade rifles, including full sized barrels

Some of those small bore rifles made by the Hawken Brothers were very "Ohioish" in architecture. In fact they looked very much like the T/C Hawken with the brass furnishings and shape of the trigger guard and with calibers of 45 or 50, as in diameter of the bore . There were similar Dimick rifles as well, but branding the T/C as a Dimick wouldn't have the same name value.

 

[Hatman/2nd line]

Unconquered, with Gary Cooper!

 

[Jkil]

Agree with you, the Revenant was really well done, maybe my favorite flintlock arms movie of all time. I'll also add that, unless a reload or a misfire were part of the plot development there really isn't any reason to include it, realism not withstanding. I worked with a movie company for a number of years and picked up a lot about how movie making is done and why. From the screenwriters and directors standpoint, every act no matter how insignificant should have a bearing on the story. For instance, if DiCaprio had a misfire, that misfire would have to have a plot angle, a reason important to the story. Example; DiCaprio's rifle misfired and as a result he was captured or wounded by the Indians. Or if his rifle misfired that misfire would occur again in a pivitol point of the movie, say with his final confrontation with Fitzgerald.
So even though misfires would realistic to depict, espeically for us gun guys, it would make no sense to include that detail which dosen't have relevance elsewhere and for a larger plot reason.
With all that said the makers really did a fine job in depicting the dirt, cruelty and tensions of early frontiersmen, more than any other movie that comes to mind. I've watched the Revenant six times. So far.

For sure that is how movies are made - works of art rather than historic documentation. The Hugh Glass story as history is quite different than how the movie depicted it, from what I've read. The real story is hardly free of dispute, but the bear mauling, abandonment by Fitzgerald and Bridger and the 200 mile trek horribly injured, with no equipment, are widely accepted. Big difference - nobody died during the course of the adventure. In fact, Glass ultimately forgave both Fitzgerald and Bridger. A movie showing how it really (probably) went would have been much more boring to the average viewer. One reason I really got off on the movie is I am currently building a Herman Rupp and recognized many details on DiCaprio's rifle!

 

[jps2486]

When I first saw this movie years ago, I thought the story was great and still do. I watched it again recently. Robert Redford seems totally out of character with his well combed blond hair. Jack Elam would have appeared more appropriate.

 

[jonathan butcher]

Agree with all. I didn’t know that no one was killed in the Hugh Glass story. I also didn’t know that he forgave the blokes who abandoned him. I think it speaks to the hard bark on these frontiersmen, many of them only boys. One can almost imagine Hugh saying something like,’ it’s ok fellas, I’d of done the same were it you instead of me!’. Hard bark.

For sure that is how movies are made - works of art rather than historic documentation. The Hugh Glass story as history is quite different than how the movie depicted it, from what I've read. The real story is hardly free of dispute, but the bear mauling, abandonment by Fitzgerald and Bridger and the 200 mile trek horribly injured, with no equipment, are widely accepted. Big difference - nobody died during the course of the adventure. In fact, Glass ultimately forgave both Fitzgerald and Bridger. A movie showing how it really (probably) went would have been much more boring to the average viewer. One reason I really got off on the movie is I am currently building a Herman Rupp and recognized many details on DiCaprio's rifle!

 

[jonathan butcher]

Ha! I haven’t thought about Jack Elam in years! If you look up the word grizzled you see Jack Elam’s picture!

When I first saw this movie years ago, I thought the story was great and still do. I watched it again recently. Robert Redford seems totally out of character with his well combed blond hair. Jack Elam would have appeared more appropriate.

 

[joelweeks]

The Big Sky with Kirk Douglas. Loved the swivel breech Dewey Martin carried.

 

[jonathan butcher]

Another movie came to mind where a misfire was actualy part of the story. Gene Hackman's character Little Bill Daggett in Unforgiven mentions a misfire as a 'common failing of that model' when recounting a gunfight tale to W.W. Beauchamp, the writer.
Then later, as Clint Eastwood aka William Muny is about to shoot Little Bill with a double barreled shotgun it too misfires. Little Bill shouts, ' Misfire! Kill the SOB, whereupon William Muny throws the shotgun at Little Bill. In this example the misfire, first mentioned by Little Bill and then played out with Little Bill was a part of the plot, part of the story. I loved it.

For sure that is how movies are made - works of art rather than historic documentation. The Hugh Glass story as history is quite different than how the movie depicted it, from what I've read. The real story is hardly free of dispute, but the bear mauling, abandonment by Fitzgerald and Bridger and the 200 mile trek horribly injured, with no equipment, are widely accepted. Big difference - nobody died during the course of the adventure. In fact, Glass ultimately forgave both Fitzgerald and Bridger. A movie showing how it really (probably) went would have been much more boring to the average viewer. One reason I really got off on the movie is I am currently building a Herman Rupp and recognized many details on DiCaprio's rifle!

 

[Nameless Hunter]

Should check out the 1993 movie "The Broken Chain" if it's available. Not really what you were thinking of but main cast is indigenous with the exception of Peirce Brosnan, still is an excellent movie.

Always liked Apocalipto (directed by Mel Gibson) as well.

 

[Ranger 1755]

There's been some mention of the movie Northwest Passage so I would like to comment. The uniforms, accouterments, and muskets are pure 1940 Hollywood. A few of the guns used by the main characters are authentic but most are doctored up trapdoors. The plot is supposed to follow Rogers' 1759 raid on ST Francis and it fairly does except for the ending. In reality, when they reach the run down Fort Wentworth, the relief party had come and gone. Rogers and a couple of his men built a raft and went down the CT River to get help. They lost the first raft and had to build another one, finally reaching the Fort at #4 on October 31st. Rogers sent men and supplies back up the river to his starving men. The movie originally had an additional 20 minutes depicting this. When Tracy and the Rangers enter the fort, everything is falling apart except the front gate which they used for the raft. But in 1940, the movie would have been way too long and these final scenes were cut and lost to eternity. But, as a Ranger reenactor, I make popcorn and watch it every time it's on.

 

[tenngun]

There's been some mention of the movie Northwest Passage so I would like to comment. The uniforms, accouterments, and muskets are pure 1940 Hollywood. A few of the guns used by the main characters are authentic but most are doctored up trapdoors. The plot is supposed to follow Rogers' 1759 raid on ST Francis and it fairly does except for the ending. In reality, when they reach the run down Fort Wentworth, the relief party had come and gone. Rogers and a couple of his men built a raft and went down the CT River to get help. They lost the first raft and had to build another one, finally reaching the Fort at #4 on October 31st. Rogers sent men and supplies back up the river to his starving men. The movie originally had an additional 20 minutes depicting this. When Tracy and the Rangers enter the fort, everything is falling apart except the front gate which they used for the raft. But in 1940, the movie would have been way too long and these final scenes were cut and lost to eternity. But, as a Ranger reenactor, I make popcorn and watch it every time it's on.

Also Mattie in True Grit has her dragoon pistol misfire.
Burt Lancaster in the Kentuckian had a misfire fighting Walter Mathow

 

[flashpoint]

When I first saw this movie years ago, I thought the story was great and still do. I watched it again recently. Robert Redford seems totally out of character with his well combed blond hair. Jack Elam would have appeared more appropriate.

I agree on that. In many of the bitter winter scenes with the snow blowing and the wind whipping, he never seems to have a hat on. I also wonder why he was knee deep in an icy mountain stream in the winter trying to catch a trout?

 

[Captjoel]

You will notice that in 95% of all movies that the main stars either never wear a hat or helmet, or they quickly lose them during a scene.

Big stars do not want to be unrecognizable with heads covered up! It's an IMAGE thing!

 

[Nazgul58]

How often do you see an actor all wet in winter weather?
In the Revenant he is in water half the movie. I always imagined that getting wet in winter was serious. Not easy to get warm again. I grew up in Western NY in the snow belt and know the value of being dry.

Don

 

[tenngun]

How often do you see an actor all wet in winter weather?
In the Revenant he is in water half the movie. I always imagined that getting wet in winter was serious. Not easy to get warm again. I grew up in Western NY in the snow belt and know the value of being dry.

Don

Although there was a lot wrong with the movie, the part that stuck in my craw the most was when Decaprio slept in the horse. Then the next morning, starving, cold, injured he just walked away from a thousand pounds of fresh meat.

 

[Rock Home Isle]

Have any of you ever seen, heard of, or watched the Sharp Series with Sean Bean?

Low budget, but I really enjoy it. I caught 1/2 of one episode on a Saturday morning about 15 years ago. I spent the next 3 weeks searching the internet until I bought every episode.

Great Great Series

 

[tenngun]

A couple of episodes and one of the books. All and all better then most.

 

[TarponStalker]

I recently found an old tv series called Hawkeye with Lee Horsely. I’d never heard of it. It’s loosely based on the book I assume as his name is Nathaniel Bumpo. It’s made about the wars in 1755. I watched all 22 shows on you tube. Lots of flintlock action made it enjoyable.

 

[Celticstoneman]

I certainly agree about JJ. It was filmed in the Wasatch Mountains in Utah on land where I've frequently hiked. And may I add, A Man Called Horse with Richard Harris. (Ever notice that movies primarily about Native Americans always feature a white man in the lead role, whatever it might be?)

I have to beg to differ about one of the worst films I've ever seen, Winterhawk. Just one tidbit from this absolute disastrous waste of film stock: In one scene Winterhawk is riding his beautiful horse, prancing about on recently plowed/furrowed farmland, with a diesel rig passing by on the highway in the distance.

Side note: The heroine is played by Dawn Wells, who recently passed. RIP Mary Anne.

"A Man Called Horse" with Richard Harris, WAS about a white man. He was the star and the natives were co-stars. The movie was about him with secondary considerations the natives not primarily.