Wedge basics

[45D]

wit you bro, and no offense, just please watch your descriptive language that might be misinterpreted by dummies to mean something not intended.

Same same. I'm a proud southerner but I'm no "hay seed" . . . dig?

I'm more than happy to help and forgive too easily but don't "quote" what I didn't say !!

Mike

 

[wiscoaster]

'wiscoaster'-----Believe there is alot of misinterpretation as to what someone says and how they actually physically perform a function.

Ya, no kidding. That's why I think you guys that have the experience and the knowledge need to be a little more precise and descriptive, especially if you know you're dealing with someone without your knowledge and experience. Don't assume that your communication goes across as you envision it should. Failure to communicate usually resides with the communicator, not the communicatee. I see good intent here, but there's a certain amount of interference and/or negativity and/or assumption that the OP knows what you're talking about that are often getting in the way and those aren't helpful. But press on!! My sermon for the day.

 

[wiscoaster]

... don't "quote" what I didn't say !!

Except I didn't "quote" it as meaning what I said, I just described how it might be "understood" by what I said -- two completely different things. And used to outrageous and excessive means by parties on both sides of an issue to misrepresent by means of a "quote". Too many words is a whole lot better than too few in getting a point across precisely and without misunderstanding.

 

[Gee Dog]

Except I didn't "quote" it as meaning what I said, I just described how it might be "understood" by what I said -- two completely different things. And used to outrageous and excessive means by parties on both sides of an issue to misrepresent by means of a "quote". Too many words is a whole lot better than too few in getting a point across precisely and without misunderstanding.

Whew! Get up, go outside and breathe some fresh air. Jeez.

 

[45D]

Except I didn't "quote" it as meaning what I said,

Ummmmm , ok ( but that's what "" "" means).
I think it would be much better to learn what the latest information that jibes with the Colt design rather than what's been "learned" ( falsely garnered) by the "they says" . . . and on a much more "non- combative" level. I (and I'm sure most other "older" members) am not here to spread "they says", but actual knowledge gathered from the likes of Jim Martin and Larson Pettifogger.
Instruction from the best available is about as good as it gets and when it flies in the face of the "what they say's", you get a LOT of push back!! The best "revenge" is proof and proof is hard to swallow for a lot of folks!!

So, if I've said something wrong or lead someone in the wrong direction, I apologize but from me and my mentors, I'm telling you the truth from the best of my knowledge. If I'm wrong, I'd love to hear why. Life without the willingness to learn is a waste, don't ever give up learning!!

Mike

 

[wiscoaster]

Whew! Get up, go outside and breathe some fresh air. Jeez.

Exactly the kind of comment and sentiment that does this forum no good and does nothing either to improve the forum or to help new members that come here for assistance. You might benefit by taking some guidance from @45D reply to my post.

 

[M. De Land]

Perfect timing ( no pun!!) / example!! (Next on the bench!).
Here's a new Uberti (never been fired) Navy with max tolerances!!!
Beautiful revolver, wedge in all the way, bottomed out against the wedge screw. Vertical play of the barrel assy. arbor is tight.

This pic is "at rest" :
View attachment 254475

This pic is with barrel pulled up:
View attachment 254476

Notice the space at the barrel lug/ frame.

Even with this "short arbor" situation with a "generous" wedge slot combination, it will end up with a tight wedge ( same wedge), driven in, with a .0025" -.003" endshake.


( tallk about timing!!!! )
Mike

Note the difference in the gap width at top and bottom in the first picture. This occurs when a wedge pulls the barrel back and no adjustment is made to the lower lug.
In the second picture it appears that the pins are to long as there should be no gap between the frame and lug.
Ideally we want the wedge fully engaged as the arbor end makes contact with the bottom of the well, the lower lugs is making full contact with the frame and the barrel cylinder gap is level top and bottom.

 

[M. De Land]

Note the difference in the gap width at top and bottom in the first picture. This occurs when a wedge pulls the barrel back and no adjustment is made to the lower lug.
In the second picture it appears that the pins are to long as there should be no gap between the frame and lug.
Ideally we want the wedge fully engaged as the arbor end makes contact with the bottom of the well, the lower lugs is making full contact with the frame and the barrel cylinder gap is level top and bottom.

By wedge fully engaged I do not mean driven in to the limit of the off side shoulder., I mean to a depth that leaves no forward slack and will not back out of the barrel slot by firing on it's own. I have achieved this in short arbor guns by making the wedge thickness a very snug contact fit. I only use the butt of a screw driver to firmly seat my new wedge's and they stay put without and end fit arbor.

 

[Pete453]

I have achieved this in short arbor guns by making the wedge thickness a very snug contact fit. I only use the butt of a screw driver to firmly seat my new wedge's and they stay put without and end fit arbor.

It's easier to make an arbor spacer out of a screw head as Mike has described, than to make a precision fit, heat treated, tool steel wedge. I've done both, I can knock out a spacer in 15 minutes with a cordless drill, feeler guages, and bench grinder and the gun is good to go for life. Wedges reguire tool steel, a mill, torches, about an hour, and I use a toaster oven to temper. Seems to me, the spacer is the way to go

 

[45D]

In this case, the wedge slot in the arbor is out of spec. There is the slightest bit of the forward section of
the arbor slot exposed ( for the wedge to contact) when the revolver is assembled (it's as if the arbor slot had been filed forward). The "cure" in this case will be the "Wedge Bearing". The set screw ( Bearing surface) will replace the lack of material and give a nice surface for the wedge to contact. That will allow the rear of the wedge to force the barrel assy (contact surface) rearward to exert tension against the end of the arbor ( with spacer installed / arbor correction).

There's never any need to add material ( a spacer) to the frame / barrel lug butt joint ( unless "Bubba" thought some needed to be removed!! ). Any problem there can be addressed by dressing the forcing cone.

Mike

 

[wiscoaster]

In this case, the wedge slot in the arbor is out of spec......<big snip>

Yet again, great closeup pics, you know what they say about pics and words, but the words, as well yet again, a great explanation of the thousand-word pics.

 

[wiscoaster]

.....Any problem there can be addressed by dressing the forcing cone.

Actually, to confess, I was aghast when this was first suggested, but it was something I ended up doing anyway and was the perfect solution. As, I've learned, is what to expect from @45D on this topic.

 

[pacanis]

In this case, the wedge slot in the arbor is out of spec. There is the slightest bit of the forward section of
the arbor slot exposed ( for the wedge to contact) when the revolver is assembled (it's as if the arbor slot had been filed forward). The "cure" in this case will be the "Wedge Bearing". The set screw ( Bearing surface) will replace the lack of material and give a nice surface for the wedge to contact. That will allow the rear of the wedge to force the barrel assy (contact surface) rearward to exert tension against the end of the arbor ( with spacer installed / arbor correction).

View attachment 254691

View attachment 254692

There's never any need to add material ( a spacer) to the frame / barrel lug butt joint ( unless "Bubba" thought some needed to be removed!! ). Any problem there can be addressed by dressing the forcing cone.

Mike

Is that hole that looks like it's tapped where the set screw goes?
I was thinking it would be in front of the slot. So the wedge would want to push to the rear.
But this is all new to me. I'm learning something here

 

[wiscoaster]

Is that hole that looks like it's tapped where the set screw goes?
I was thinking it would be in front of the slot. So the wedge would want to push to the rear.
But this is all new to me. I'm learning something here

No, it's above the slot. It's only there to keep the wedge from falling out when it's pulled out to the disassembly side. You take the screw out to remove the wedge completely.

 

[45D]

Is that hole that looks like it's tapped where the set screw goes?
I was thinking it would be in front of the slot. So the wedge would want to push to the rear.
But this is all new to me. I'm learning something here

No sir, that is the hole for the wedge screw. Like this :

The "adjustable wedge bearing" is a set screw in the arbor that goes into the wedge slot. It becomes the forward arbor surface that the wedge bears against.
You access it through the front-

And this is the polished surface for the wedge -

Mike

 

[pacanis]

Thanks, Mike
That's some hi-tek stuff there. Completely adjustable for "Wedge wear"

 

[45D]

Thanks, Mike
That's some hi-tek stuff there. Completely adjustable for "Wedge wear"

Exactly sir!!

Mike

 

[SPQR70AD]

I watched a recent video of Blackie Thomas explain a short arbor and how to fix it with a lock washer. the best easiest to understand explanation of a prehistoric design. I like that guy. nothing against Mike 45d just that I never saw a video Mike made

 

[Dude]

nothing against Mike 45d just that I never saw a video Mike made

Some people have difficulty 'seeing' a concept without pictures.

 

[SPQR70AD]

Some people have difficulty 'seeing' a concept without pictures.

it is not really that. 10 people could explain a short arbor and how to fix it. maybe only 2 of them can really make it understandable. they know what they are doing drone on and on and I know less after they are done. Blackie makes it so simple to understand and without a video it would still be the best explanation I ever heard. his video really dont show that much except the pistol taken apart the arbor then the washer